They don't have a clue.....

[Tandum (Robin)]

Originally Posted by renormalised

And if the present conditions keep up for any longer and you get a typical NQ downpour, you're in big trouble.

Rain has stopped here, just showers now, it's all moving west and south towards Melbourne. It's already broken all records for everything. Power is off all over town and I'm just waiting for the Internet and phones to stop although we should retain power here. Long range predictions are for a cyclone around Jan28th. It's been a long time since we've had one, they used to hit every year when I was growing up and usually more than one.

[marki]

Originally Posted by el_draco

Yes, we know you like to stir the pot Mark, but most of the rest of us are not quite that deluded....

I am not stirring the pot, I am stating a fact that can be observed by anyone willing to look e.g go to the pilbra after a huge cyclone and look, the buildings are all still standing, why might that be??? If anyone is deluded I would say it would have to be the tree hugging greenies, save the trees you cry, dont touch a twig.....last time I was in Hobart half of tasmania was on fire, well done .

Cheers

Mark

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by el_draco

If there is a flood where I am building, It'll be a final drink I suspect and I will start to believe in a "higher power"...
Altitude: 550m.

Start packing or drinking, Toowoomba was at 700m altitude.

[andrew2008]

A lot of people seem to think the dam didn't do it's job. How much worse would this have been if it wasn't there though. Floods levels of the 1890's would easily have been seen.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by andrew2008

A lot of people seem to think the dam didn't do it's job.

No doubt.

The Brisbane river has had *major* floods in 1841, 1863, 1890, 1893 (really bad at 8 metres), 1916, 1974 and now in 2011, with dam. (Bureau of Met historical data)

You'd think the powers that be might have picked up on the fact these events:
1) are not rare
2) cause massive devistation and loss of life
3) far more (civil engineering) needs to be done...

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

No doubt.

The Brisbane river has had *major* floods in ...snip... in 2011, with dam. (Bureau of Met historical data)

Ah yes the BOM, are they like the CSIRO..? Because accordinmg to some the CSIRO is just full of government paid psuedo scientists who miss represent the truth on behalf of the Climate Change drummers, just to keep themselves in jobs...

[marki]

Anyhow getting back on track ....are there any civil engineering examples where changes have been made to successfully combat flooding? Perhaps pointing the pollies towards such examples would be more constructive.


Mark

[Alchemy (Clive)]

Given these houses are built on frequently flooded land, whatever happened to he queenslander home built on stilts ?
With today's engineering you should be able to use steel poles for the supportnwhich will take a moderate "bash" and a bit of current.
Perhaps not if you are in the centre of an extreme hit but just flooding... One wonders.

[marki]

Originally Posted by Alchemy

Given these houses are built on frequently flooded land, whatever happened to he queenslander home built on stilts ?
With today's engineering you should be able to use steel poles for the supportnwhich will take a moderate "bash" and a bit of current.
Perhaps not if you are in the centre of an extreme hit but just flooding... One wonders.

Yes Clive I was thinking the same thing perhaps using piles driven well into the ground could help? I mean they manage to stabilise oil rigs in heavy seas a light wieght structure like a house shouldn't prove too much of a problem.

Mark

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

Unlocked and offending posts deleted.

please keep to topic and refrain from personal attacks.

[adman (Adam)]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

these cities were built in the wrong place to begin with

well not quite. At the time that the Brisbane area was first settled, it was the only logical place to build a city. All traffic came and went by the river and the sea.

[thunderchildobs]

Wivenhoe is on the Brisbane river, however the Bremer river which passes through Ipswich, joins the Brisbane river at Riverview / Mogil, which is well down stream from Wivenhoe.
Wivenhoe does not stop any flooding caused by the water from Bremer joining the Brisbane river. There are no dams on the Bremer.

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by adman

well not quite. At the time that the Brisbane area was first settled, it was the only logical place to build a city. All traffic came and went by the river and the sea.

I am talking about a CITY not a settlement when the settlement shows signs of growing the people used English experience of the homeland and no understanding of local conditions when allowing growth in the wrong location. Flood plains are the ideal place for food production and commerce and industry and housing need to be in a safe environment

[Lee]

Originally Posted by thunderchildobs

Wivenhoe is on the Brisbane river, however the Bremer river which passes through Ipswich, joins the Brisbane river at Riverview / Mogil, which is well down stream from Wivenhoe.
Wivenhoe does not stop any flooding caused by the water from Bremer joining the Brisbane river. There are no dams on the Bremer.

Excellent point.

[adman (Adam)]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

I am talking about a CITY not a settlement when the settlement shows signs of growing the people used English experience of the homeland and no understanding of local conditions when allowing growth in the wrong location. Flood plains are the ideal place for food production and commerce and industry and housing need to be in a safe environment

yes but the city started from a settlement, and and that settlement was only able to grow because of its location on an easily navigable river with easy access to the goods produced by the city and the sea.

[Jeffkop (Jeff)]

Throughout history the prime consideration of settlement is water. Its logical to me then that these settlements were located close to rivers and then they prospered and grew from settlements to cities. Not to discount all the other valid reasons that were advantageous by being close to a river. Its also logical then that from time to time co-existing with a river brings with it the dilemna of a flood. If people think they are going to be able to indemnify themselves completely from all the different kinds of disasters that their environs present (both temporary or permanent) they are in a fairytale and so in fantasyland when ever theres a problem then its always got to be someones fault ... because fantasyland is PERFECT, and if its not ... someones to blame!!!

[Terry B]

Originally Posted by Alchemy

Given these houses are built on frequently flooded land, whatever happened to he queenslander home built on stilts ?
With today's engineering you should be able to use steel poles for the supportnwhich will take a moderate "bash" and a bit of current.
Perhaps not if you are in the centre of an extreme hit but just flooding... One wonders.

I agree.
I use to live in Moree which is on a great big flood plain with black soil as foundations.
Despite this the building code was that all new buildings or renovations had to have floor level 500mm above the highest known flood (1954). Only the old houses don't comply and lots of them have been lifted on stilts to comply.
I'm not sure why the same rules wouldn't apply in Brisbane. Many of the houses we are seeing flooded on the media images are not old houses.
Have the Qld councils in these areas decided not to bother with similar rules?

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Jeffkop

... If people think they are going to be able to indemnify themselves completely from all the different kinds of disasters that their environs present (both temporary or permanent) they are in a fairytale ...

The Mississipi has literally several 1000km's of levees etc...that for the greater part, work. Even Grafton saved themselves alot of grief by doing the same.

Last time I was in Brisbane...can't say I noticed any levees or similar structures.

Do you not think it rather odd, that for a river that regularly floods in no small manner (with zippo flood control from the Bremer) ...that more has not been done in the last 100 or so years?

Yet we have the CBD of Australia's 3rd major capitol under water.....massive loss of property, and sadly loss of life....again.

Not rocket science IMHO.

[adman (Adam)]

Peter if it is not rocket science, I would love to hear your proposal for a levee that would protect brisbane from flooding

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

The Mississipi has literally several 1000km's of levees etc...that for the greater part, work. Even Grafton saved themselves alot of grief by doing the same.

Last time I was in Brisbane...can't say I noticed any levees or similar structures.

Do you not think it rather odd, that for a river that regularly floods in no small manner (with zippo flood control from the Bremer) ...that more has not been done in the last 100 or so years?

Yet we have the CBD of Australia's 3rd major capitol under water.....massive loss of property, and sadly loss of life....again.

Not rocket science IMHO.

[coldspace]

Originally Posted by Alchemy

Given these houses are built on frequently flooded land, whatever happened to he queenslander home built on stilts ?
With today's engineering you should be able to use steel poles for the supportnwhich will take a moderate "bash" and a bit of current.
Perhaps not if you are in the centre of an extreme hit but just flooding... One wonders.

There are still plenty of Qld'er homes on stilts, problem now is many people have built in underneath them to make bigger living areas to keep up with the growing modern lifestyle and these now flood through causing alot more property damage than 74, as well as the massive influx of population growth from the other states over the last 20 years which has seen lots of property sub-divided up making it worse as well.

I think concerning the gravity of the situation the current emergency workers and those organising them"pollies" are doing a fantastic job and I will be taking a week off soon from my buisiness to go and help clean mud out of houses including houses of friends of mine.
My hats go off to those helping us out, at least our pollies did not stand around waiting like what happened after hurricane Katrina in the US.