Blackhawk Down, Had Concerns

[bartman (Bart)]

Originally Posted by troypiggo

I wonder if one person can step into this thread, and provide a solution that can make all of you see the same point of view and be satisfied. That's what you're expecting Afghanistan/US/UN/Australia etc to be able to do.

I agree Troy,,,,,,,, we will be heading into ( and I sincerely hope we do......) a Star Trek-esque scenario........if that person/body can do so.
Maybe not in our lifetime.....but hey

[iceman (Mike)]

+1 Troy! Well said.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by troypiggo

Considering the relatively small sample size of IIS members posting in this thread and all of the differing points of view, and every one of them convinced they're the one that's "right", it's easy to see how on a global scale international conflict escalates into the very scenario you're all debating.

I wonder if one person can step into this thread, and provide a solution that can make all of you see the same point of view and be satisfied. That's what you're expecting Afghanistan/US/UN/Australia etc to be able to do.

A few points:

There's a big difference between verbal disagreement and picking up a weapon.

Many of us express opinions knowing historically that we are wrong much of the time.

A large part of the population is in agreement that we should not have engaged in guerilla/urban warfare in Iraq and Afghanistan; as casualties mount and results are not forthcoming the numbers calling for withdrawal will increase. It seems that the lessons of history are only remembered for a short time before mistakes are repeated again.

[Gem (Grant)]

My thoughts go out to the families affected by yesterday's tragedy. May they rest in peace. They did this country proud. They were helping in a near impossible situation.

Hard to believe it is now ten years since I was there.

Lest we forget.

[troypiggo (Troy)]

Originally Posted by casstony

A few points:

There's a big difference between verbal disagreement and picking up a weapon.

I would put it to you that verbal disagreements can often be the starting point or trigger to violence/bashing/murder on a local level (weapons often used), and if you put that on a global scale (throwing political, religious, and national economical interests into the mix) the sparking of a war could be projected as the equivalent.

PS - I meant to mention to the OP Marty my relief that his son is OK, and my sorrow for those that have lost their lives on either side of any conflict, no matter which war, time or place.

My apologies for taking part in a tangent from the original intent of this thread.

[rat156]

Yes, as we have another Black Hawk down.

I have a lot of friends over there on duty at present. I can find no news identifying either of the two soldiers killed in the helicopter crash. Most of my mates work in SOTG, I have heard mixed reports that they were SAS or SO, neither of which is a great prospect as I have worked with both.

The worst part about all this is the sense of relief that you feel when you don't know the person killed, I hate it, but somehow it's always there. Unfortunately one of the soldiers killed in the Green on Blue was a relative of a friend. It's been a bad day.

Lest We Forget

Stuart

[Baddad (Marty)]

Thanks Rat 156 and Thanks Troy,

Both of you have made an effort to bring this thread back to what it was intended to be.

I don't have any bad feelings of the "tangent" that the discussions went. It is an emotion stiring subject. We all have a single goal we aim for. How it is acheived is the difference and consequently generates the differing opinions.

Lets hope that the soldiers over there are given some morale boosting issues soon. They do their job so we can sit here and discuss it freely.

Cheers

[clive milne]

Marty,
I highly recommend reading 'Axis Of Deceit' by Andrew Wilkie, the (former) Senior Transnational Issues Analyst at the Office of National Assessments.

You could most likely find it in your local library (There is a copy in Fremantle fwiw)

It will lend some important historical context which I think is worth applying to Iran.

You know what they say about those who don't learn from history.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by Baddad

Lets hope that the soldiers over there are given some morale boosting issues soon. They do their job so we can sit here and discuss it freely.
Cheers

Have they been given an impossible task?

[TrevorW]

Why are the US so intent in meddling in other countries affairs and we get dragged along for the ride. (WW1 and WWII excluded as they are worldwide ramifications that would have affected us.)

History has shown over and over that a population will eventually rise against a Government if they are suppressed and desperate enough. Generally the good outweigh the bad in any society and they will strive to any length to return to a stable and safe environment to raise their children in.

I feel sorry for our soldiers who willingly follow the orders of our Govt because of some treaty, fighting for the rights of others on foreign soil, losing their lives when the final outcome has little or no affect on the country they came from.

I may be naive about the reasons behind our involvement or the history of the country they are fighting in but as Tony said have they been given an impossible task considering the length of time we have been there.

[Baddad (Marty)]

Yes. Impossible successful outcome is very close to what it may be.
History has not taught some politicians anything. However, an earlier point I made: By taking the fight to them, the conflict is on their ground and reduces the terrorism activities on our home ground. If the Taliban was not being harrassed at home they would have open season on the Western World.

Before the US went to Afghanistan the general opinion was that the "enemy" deserved to be punished. The US was looked upon as heros.
Now as we all are aware the tables have turned because of the cost of lives.

I feel its a long way off being resolved and for the US to pull out would be a mistake that many countries would suffer the consequences.

I received an email again from my son. Here's a snip of what he wrote:

The worst part is the Aussies were staying overnight at the FOB on their way passing through when the ANA opened fire. He got away.
So far, 'green-on-blue' violence has accounted for 15% of US service member deaths since the start of the war, and the percentage is much higher recently. I don't know the Australian numbers.

FOB = forward operating base
ANA = Afghan National Army

I heard on radio that 7 of 38 Australians have been killed by enemy action. I don't know exactly what was meant, nor how the other fatalities happened.

Cheers

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by Baddad

...........I heard on radio that 7 of 38 Australians have been killed by enemy action. I don't know exactly what was meant, nor how the other fatalities happened.

It means that 7 of the total 38 Aussie casualties were killed by ANA soldiers (so called green on blue killings)..people our Army are training to defend their country once we pull out of the region. Clearly they are trying to distinguish those deaths that happended by so called in country allies to the cause, including the two special forces soldiers that died in the Blackhawk crash, and those that were killed by the actual enemy (e.g. direct action or IED).

[Baddad (Marty)]

Thanks Hans.

I assumed something similar. Just that I did not hear the full report.

Cheers