What is wrong with car industry in USA

[Barrykgerdes]

Sorry to bring up this subject again but a thought just struck me.

The american car industry has been going downhill since they stopped making those great big "Yank Tanks" and started making those compacts just like other countries.

Lets face it. If you were a blue blooded American and could not have the worlds biggest gas guzzler would you settle for a cheap copy of an import.

Barry

[Kal (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by Barrykgerdes

The american car industry has been going downhill since they stopped making those great big "Yank Tanks" and started making those compacts just like other countries.

I've been to the USA a couple of times, most recently September this year, and I can say with 100% certainty that those big 'Yank Tanks' have been replaced by even larger 'trucks'. It is not too uncommon to see everyday people driving around in Ford F400's and such.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by Kal

It is not too uncommon to see everyday people driving around in Ford F400's and such.

Andrew - that's absolutely not to say that they all do, but there certainly are a few who do.

I think that it really depends on where you are. West and Midwest, probably true to some extent. New York/New England - mid-sized to small cars are really becoming the go. I lived there for a number of years just recently, and actively observed that the trend downwards in size was inexorable. Large SUVs (both 4 and 2 wheel drive) were frowned upon by average people, and that went for the people I worked with. Our company's largest car was a Ford Taurus - a mid-sized car over there. The rest of us had small cars.

The blokes on the other side of the country - on the WHOLE - are following the trend in their own way, but you really do see a lot of large 4x4s as well. Don't forget that they have over 10 times our population, so the density of them as seen on actual roads will obviously be a lot higher than we're used to over here in Oz. In real percentages though cars, on average, are almost certainly smaller than they used to be 20 years ago. What I also found was that people actually thought that it was good to be concerned about the size of car they drive - wheras 20 years ago they certainly did not.... well.. apart from the fuel crisis times. At least this is a step in the right direction.

I find it amusing that people sit wherever they are and cast their own expectations on the Americans over their cars and car industry. They introduced the affordable car to the masses and refined the process that the whole world took on to build their own. Now we blame them for starting the whole thing while we still enjoy our own freedom of movement that the car has given us. I guess a parallel is how the Europeans sit there and criticise Australians (note: not 'Australia", but 'Australians" referring to you and me personally) for not immediately having our government stop our coal-fired power stations and installing nuclear today. Neither what you or I say will change that, but in time, if we all say it together, it will change - and hopefully for something better than currently used anywhere else in the world - be it solar, geothermal or better nuclear. Everybody will always have a problem with how others do what they do in their own environment. Back when, large cars in the USA were purely a reaction to the price of fuel at the time. It was cheap - so the market did what it does best and answered the call. We had them here too. Big V8's weren't the sole domain of the USA.

The economy of more than just the USA will most likely suffer horribly if the US car industry goes down in a screaming heap. It will affect everyone on more levels than we'll probably ever know. Yes, I agree that it eventually has to be shut down and something better built in its place, but it should be a gradual process, not a cataclysmic one. Given that, I suppose that the US has no choice but to bail out its car industry for the time being - hopefully in the knowledge that it won't go on forever and that plans must be made to wind it up. I hope that we discover/develop new technologies that will maintain our travel freedoms without a radical re-think on the way society works. Bring on the fuel cell!

[Kal (Andrew)]

Thanks for the input from someone that's lived there recently Chris

I must admit, when I was over there I went there with the perception to "drive a big American car" and I hired a 5.7L V8 dodge durango on my first trip, and on my more recent trip a 4.2L (?) V8 Chrystler Aspen, both huge cars (well to me at least!)

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by Kal

Thanks for the input from someone that's lived there recently Chris

I must admit, when I was over there I went there with the perception to "drive a big American car" and I hired a 5.7L V8 dodge durango on my first trip, and on my more recent trip a 4.2L (?) V8 Chrystler Aspen, both huge cars (well to me at least!)

I know what you mean. Every time I travelled interstate I hired a car on arrival. Invariably you'd be given something big if you didn't ask for a smaller car. I guess that the perception that hire car firms have is that people want or need room if they're travelling, so offering large cars is the norm. I usually had a bunch of guys with me and their overnight luggage as we stepped off the plane, so a large car made good sense.

As well, I wonder if the larger cars are actually cheaper for them to offer in some way - maybe super discounts from the manufacturers or something?

If I was alone I usually asked for a Corolla because they are easier to park in unfamiliar territory.

[TrevorW]

Whats wrong with the American car industry

1. Americans
2. Americans
3. Americans

A propensity to compensate for short comings both physically and mentally by the size of their cars

Nothing really innovative apart from some military hardware has come out of America since the 70's

It took them 60 years to get from flight to landing on the moon, 40 years late what ???

[xelasnave]

Common a fair go look at the good things... they do ok ...they just have some smarties who are good at making money disappear and we are all now a bit jaded because they did it...

But CHrysler have announced a production cut..one would think that would be normal given the market etc... but I dont think that is what is going on..it seems to me it is their attempt to force the senates hand and dip into the public purse..

alex

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Common a fair go look at the good things... they do ok ...they just have some smarties who are good at making money disappear and we are all now a bit jaded because they did it...

But CHrysler have announced a production cut..one would think that would be normal given the market etc... but I dont think that is what is going on..it seems to me it is their attempt to force the senates hand and dip into the public purse..

alex

I feel sorry for the workers at Chrysler - locking the gate for an enforced holiday for 4 weeks likely means that 20-30% of them will get retrenched while on "holidays" .... a favourate trick of american companies . 20-30 % of the work force is apparently standard practice when companies are trouble (and it's always the workers (I include engineers here) who get shafted) . The "business improvement" experts always require it.

Not a nice feeling being retrenched at any time , but to get your pink slip the week before Xmas is really bad .... been there done that (in 1982) especially if you've worked your guts out to improve the job and make the company more efficient / profitable.

[xelasnave]

You know the real exciting thing is Ian...they get the bail out..must happen...but then how do you fix a company ...sack workers..we all know that...so it sucks the guestures they make that to avoid a bail out will hurt workers...they will be hurt and goldern parachutes will be the norm
alex

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Whats wrong with the American car industry

1. Americans
2. Americans
3. Americans

A propensity to compensate for short comings both physically and mentally by the size of their cars

Nothing really innovative apart from some military hardware has come out of America since the 70's

It took them 60 years to get from flight to landing on the moon, 40 years late what ???

What's wrong with people today?

1. Generalisations
2. Generalisations
3. Generalisations

I thought that the topic was "what is wrong with the American car industry" - not "what is wrong with Americans".

Americans have been to the moon, I can't recall anyone else doing it yet. They've been up in space ever since - along with a Russian or two on occasion. They developed the integrated circuit and on it the computer industry (mainframe-industrial, desktop and hand-held), they developed the internet on which we all sit every day and the TCP/Internet protocol that lets it all hang together. They also came up with something a few people owe their lives to: the artificial heart. Did we forget that they invented the optical fibre so that we can talk to someone in India as easily as we talk to someone in the next room or that they also came up with the digital camera (CCD) and good old email? Just a couple of world-changing and influential things out of thousands they've invented and developed over the last 40 years. Nothing innovative...

Patents granted by country per million people? - America stands currently at number 3 behind Japan and South Korea with 300-odd patents per year per million people. Top of the tree. Been there for decades. Australia stands in 19th place with a mere 75, and we still call ourself the "clever country". Come on guys - fair's fair huh?

[xelasnave]

Generalisations are dangerous indeed and one of my many faults.
alex

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Oh guys, this thread assumes customers are logical in vehicle purchases. They go with what feels good, and manufactures know it. Dick brains still buy 4WDs, go figure?. The "they killed EVS" conspiracy theory lives on, there are many independant documentaries on exactly why this happened, all painfully logical, but who wants the boring truth ?. Market forces are all, failures are measured by the misreading of customer wants, nothing less, nothing more.

[TrevorW]

Sir Timothy John "Tim" Berners-Lee, KBE, FRS, FREng, FRSA, (born June 8, 1955 in London, England) is the inventor of the World Wide Web, director of the World Wide Web Consortium

English

The went to the moon no more no less than for military reasons don't let the hype fool you and they used German and Russian inginuity

German, Russian

The integrated circuit was conceived by a radar scientist, Geoffrey W.A. Dummer (1909-2002), working for the Royal Radar Establishment of the British Ministry of Defence, and published at the Symposium on Progress in Quality Electronic Components in Washington, D.C. on May 7, 1952.[1] He gave many symposia publicly to propagate his ideas.

English

Fibre Optics-Guiding of light by refraction, the principle that makes fiber optics possible, was first demonstrated by Daniel Colladon and Jacques Babinet in Paris in the 1840s, with Irish inventor John Tyndall offering public displays using water-fountains ten years later.[1] Practical applications, such as close internal illumination during dentistry, appeared early in the twentieth century. Image transmission through tubes was demonstrated independently by the radio experimenter Clarence Hansell and the television pioneer John Logie Baird in the 1920s. The principle was first used for internal medical examinations by Heinrich Lamm in the following decade. In 1952, physicist Narinder Singh Kapany conducted experiments that led to the invention of optical fiber, based on Tyndall's earlier studies; modern optical fibers, where the glass fiber is coated with a transparent cladding to offer a more suitable refractive index, appeared later in the decade.[

Not American

A lot of what comes out of America isn't invented by Americans

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Sir Timothy John "Tim" Berners-Lee, KBE, FRS, FREng, FRSA, (born June 8, 1955 in London, England) is the inventor of the World Wide Web

English

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tes_inventions

Trevor, the WWW is merely an application sitting on the backbone - the Internet. The first TCP/IP-wide area network was operational by January 1, 1983, when the United States' National Science Foundation (NSF) constructed a university network backbone that would later become the NSFNet. (date is technically that of the birth of the Internet.) It was then followed by the opening of the network to commercial interests in 1985.

The went to the moon no more no less than for military reasons don't let the hype fool you and they used German and Russian inginuity

German, Russian

Yes, it's widely acknowledged that the cold war fuelled the whole shebang, so what's your point? They still got there and the rest didn't. The Russians may have had a clever man at the helm, but the Russian military let him down as did their engine technology. The N1 was a complete failure.

The integrated circuit was conceived by a radar scientist, Geoffrey W.A. Dummer (1909-2002), working for the Royal Radar Establishment of the British Ministry of Defence, and published at the Symposium on Progress in Quality Electronic Components in Washington, D.C. on May 7, 1952.[1] He gave many symposia publicly to propagate his ideas.

English

The English merely suggested the notion of a condensed circuit - maybe. What you've said makes no more sense than saying that the French invented moon travel when Jules Verne shot a cannon shell full of people at it in a book. Thinking about it and doing it are two entirely differnet things. Again, it took Noyce and Kilby from Texas Instruments and Fairchild Semiconductor to invent the process that made any of it possible.

Fibre Optics-Guiding of light by refraction, the principle that makes fiber optics possible, was first demonstrated by Daniel Colladon and Jacques Babinet in Paris in the 1840s, with Irish inventor John Tyndall offering public displays using water-fountains ten years later.[1] Practical applications, such as close internal illumination during dentistry, appeared early in the twentieth century. Image transmission through tubes was demonstrated independently by the radio experimenter Clarence Hansell and the television pioneer John Logie Baird in the 1920s. The principle was first used for internal medical examinations by Heinrich Lamm in the following decade. In 1952, physicist Narinder Singh Kapany conducted experiments that led to the invention of optical fiber, based on Tyndall's earlier studies; modern optical fibers, where the glass fiber is coated with a transparent cladding to offer a more suitable refractive index, appeared later in the decade.[

Not American

Well, Claude Chappe invented the 'optical telegraph' using drawn glass fibres in France in the 1790's if the truth be told. Maybe I should have been clearer - the Americans invented the laser, which in turn made little glass fibres (which have actually been around since Roman times) work for long-distance communications purposes. Bell Labs sorted this all out - not the British, French or anyone else.

A lot of what comes out of America isn't invented by Americans

Same goes for every country. Split Enz were New Zealanders, but to the world their music "came out" of Australia. Do you think the Americans lied about a whole bunch of their inventions? LOL!! Patents are where it's all at. You can't beat the patent, and #3 in the world are the good old Yanks. Dismissing the Americans like you are is hard to justify I think.

[xelasnave]

which Americans are we talking about North Americans or South Americans???

alex

[TrevorW]

Exactly

and thats the good thing about free speech is that we can beg to differ

and yes I agee generalisation is a bad thing but as everyone knows there is good and bad in every society

I'm not going to argue symantics because we could go one for ages just let's say we beg to differ but getting back to the original thread idea.

Like our govt instead of demanding changes to ensure profitable run businesses and enviromentally friendly cheap cars they pour further tax money down the drain propping up businesses for the sake of jobs and who gets rich from this not the workers.

[iceman (Mike)]

Another divisive thread with no purpose but for people to whinge and complain with generalisations that would insult quite a number of our members on IceInSpace.

Locked.