Melbourne incident

[The_bluester (Paul)]

The problem with that is the same as it always was.

While it is not likely to be the case in this instance, if someone is later found to have been wrongly convicted (it happens) it is fiendishly difficult to un-execute them. Institute capital punishment for this fella and where do you stop? Should Martin Bryant be executed? I would argue that his actions were much more premeditated than this bloke, who you would have to describe as unhinged rather than calculating.

[Kunama]

Until the law allows the victims or their families to sue the magistrate or person granting bail for actions that could reasonable be expected to occur we are stuck with this pathetic legal system that is based on the idea of rehabilitation at all costs rather than rehabilitation only after punishment.

These type of mongrels do not deserve any opportunity to be rehabilitated into society, they threw away that right when they decided to commit such crimes.
The punishment needs to match the crime, crush this ******* with a car and leave him under its burning exhaust till he can no longer be considered a threat to anyone ever again.

Just my 2 cents after more than two decades of watching criminals being set free and leaving the courthouse ahead of the police who took them there.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by FlashDrive

Not sure if anyone heard this said about him .....

One witness said he was yelling out that the Government was after him and Asteroids were coming....

He also had an ice addiction .... and violence issues.

I think ' Capital Punishment ' would be the order of the day for this fella ...

Col....

Mmmm he can beat murder I think.
He may not have the mental requirement of having a mind that can be guilty.
There is no way this chap should be out on bail if he still is the system can be called broken.
The legal system is good but needs a big fix.
Give folk a break for a first minor offence but thereafter apply full penelaitirs of the appropriate act.
In my view easy sentences are a way to see lawyers get work.
The folk that reoffend tells us that things are broken.
I bet I could kill someone and be out in three years, I have seen it done...that is wrong.
Anyways we the people have no voice the powers know better than us and so our thoughts and feelings do not count and do not kid yourselves that they do.
Alex

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by The_bluester

The problem with that is the same as it always was.

While it is not likely to be the case in this instance, if someone is later found to have been wrongly convicted (it happens) it is fiendishly difficult to un-execute them. Institute capital punishment for this fella and where do you stop? Should Martin Bryant be executed? I would argue that his actions were much more premeditated than this bloke, who you would have to describe as unhinged rather than calculating.

That piece of garbage from Port Arthur, prefer you don't print its name by the way, should have been publicly executed and I would have been happy to light the bonfire. As it is, it is in permanent solitary because the rest of the crims have promised to do the task the judiciary and government didn't have the cahonas to do. Where there is zero doubt, the rodents should be removed from the planet IMHO

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Mmmm he can beat murder I think.
He may not have the mental requirement of having a mind that can be guilty.Alex

Call it rodent control then, either way, the results the same.

[Kunama]

Originally Posted by el_draco

Call it rodent control then, either way, the results the same.

Intent to kill is not required, 'mens rea' is established if 'reckless indifference....' is shown.

[AndrewJ]

'mens rea' is established if 'reckless indifference....' is shown.

And if a lawyer takes the std obfuscation route and leads off with "he had a bad childhood and was on ice at the time", it all becomes an expensive argument where once more, lawyers win and the public gets shafted.

Andrew

[MortonH]

Originally Posted by csb

I note the guys with the bat were young. What have they got to lose. An older person will consider, their own family, life, legal issues, etc.

No-one seems to be considering the possibility that the guys with the bat actually pushed the guy over the edge. Who knows if it had any impact on his already messed up state of mind.

Personally I think it was totally irresponsible of them to approach such an obvious nut job in the manner they did. They claim they were worried he was going to do something really bad and felt they had to act, but they may in fact have escalated the situation.

[csb (Craig)]

People in their teens aren't so sophisticated in their outlook/reasoning. And they are (we were) risk takers without fully appreciating or caring if the consequences.

However, news media are portraying their actions as being brave.

[torana68 (Roger)]

Originally Posted by MortonH

No-one seems to be considering the possibility that the guys with the bat actually pushed the guy over the edge. ................................... ............

he stabbed his own brother (as well as wanting to kill all gay people) , assaulted some old guy to steal his car, was ranting, had been followed by Police cars for some time............ he was well over the edge before they turned up............there can be NO excuses for what he did , not drugs not alcohol not a poor upbringing, people trying to stop him...... nothing.

[MortonH]

Originally Posted by torana68

he stabbed his own brother (as well as wanting to kill all gay people) , assaulted some old guy to steal his car, was ranting, had been followed by Police cars for some time............ he was well over the edge before they turned up............there can be NO excuses for what he did , not drugs not alcohol not a poor upbringing, people trying to stop him...... nothing.

Jeez, I'm not offering it as an EXCUSE!!!

Whatever he did earlier in the day, you can't know if he was going to drive into the crowd anyway. What we do know is that he was behaving in a bizarre and aggressive manner and two people antagonised him further, regardless of their intentions.

When someone's acting crazy you give them as much space as possible and don't interact with them unless you're trained to do so.

[AndrewJ]

[QUOTE]When someone's acting crazy you give them as much space as possible and don't interact with them unless you're trained to do so./QUOTE]
I wonder if the dead and injured were "trained to interact" when they actually "interacted" with him ( not of their choice ) , and i must ask, who is trained to deal with a nutter like this?????????
He was acting totally irrationally and completely out of control, and using a car as a weapon in the middle of a highly populated area.
The wallopers should have rammed/disabled his car or shot him after the first donut, considering they knew his background and history on the day.

Andrew

[MortonH]

I thought the 'wallopers' were random teenagers who knew nothing about what happened earlier.

[AndrewJ]

I thought the 'wallopers' were random teenagers who knew nothing about what happened earlier.

Nope. Its colloquial slang for the police :-)
ie in the good old days, you didnt get arrested, you got a nice word in yr ear and a wallop to go home with.

Andrew

[bigjoe (JOSEPH)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

And yet mention the prospect of capital punishment and things return to an entirely unrealistic approach such that we are asked to consider how the poor accused should be understood and rehabilitated.
How long will the accused spend in prison.
Whilst in prison how many will he effect or infect.
Uncivilized actions do not deserve civilized treatment.
Alex

Couldn't agree more!
bigjoe

[bigjoe (JOSEPH)]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

And if a lawyer takes the std obfuscation route and leads off with "he had a bad childhood and was on ice at the time", it all becomes an expensive argument where once more, lawyers win and the public gets shafted.

Andrew

Yes as asual it seems.
bigjoe.l

[The_bluester (Paul)]

[QUOTE=AndrewJ;1292129]

The wallopers should have rammed/disabled his car or shot him after the first donut, considering they knew his background and history on the day.

Andrew

Edit: added the quote as subsequent posts left this context free.

That does beg the very obvious questions.

What if in trying to ram him they put him through the crowd of pedestrians?
What if in trying to shoot him they killed an innocent bystander or two instead?

Given he had only showed himself publically at the time as a nut job, not a nut job using a car as a murder weapon I think we would be having a very different discussion today and the coppers would be getting the rough end of it.

I stand by my previous comments about the guys with baseball bats, taking a swing at someone who has already lost the plot is only going to make him worse.

[MortonH]

[QUOTE=The_bluester;1292139]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Edit: added the quote as subsequent posts left this context free.

That does beg the very obvious questions.

What if in trying to ram him they put him through the crowd of pedestrians?
What if in trying to shoot him they killed an innocent bystander or two instead?

Given he had only showed himself publically at the time as a nut job, not a nut job using a car as a murder weapon I think we would be having a very different discussion today and the coppers would be getting the rough end of it.

Which is why the police tend to stand off in the first instance for fear of making it worse. It's always easy to second guess or make the right decision with hindsight, of course.

It was similar in the Lindt cafe siege. The police snipers could have taken him out but they were worried he might have explosives that would go off and kill everyone inside.

There's no right or wrong answer, unfortunately.

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Uncivilized actions do not deserve civilized treatment.
Alex

With due respect Alex, civilized treatment is important. I know this view is unpopular at the moment, but the mark of a civilised society is the way it treats even the worst of it's members. I am NOT saying that he should not be punished, I hope that life behind bars is what he gets. But that punishment should be done in a way that reflects our values and our rule of law. As a society, I think we hold the value that life should be sancrosanct as far as we can make it. This is not achieved by state sanctioned killing or brutalising accused or convicted felons, that is simple revenge, and to quote a recent PM, I hope we are better than that.

Malcolm

[xelasnave]

Hi Malcolm,
You are correct.
Give him a fair trial then hang him.
Alex