Pack & Send woes

[PRejto (Peter)]

Hi Simon,

Boy, what terrible news.....especially after all you have been through with the mount.

I had an incident years ago in Arizona with a moving company. I argued with them endlessly, wasted time with government cosumer protection agencies. Many months passed. Finally I filed a small claims court action against them. 24 hours after they were served with court papers they called me and asked me what I would accept to not go to court. My advice would be to pay an attorney for a strongly worded letter that indicates that you will take them to court for not only your loss but court fees. I believe you will get satisfaction rather quickly as their position is totally indefensible. I can't believe they would pay lawyers to defend their position even if they think they might win. That cost alone would probably exceed what they shoud pay you. The company will take the less expensive option. What judge could rule in their favour? From what you have said they entered into a contract when they accepted your shipment, particularly after they inspected it. They were well aware of what they accepted.

Good luck and don't give up!

Peter

[casstony]

I put in a review on the product review website titled 'deceptive practicies' which has been edited to 'bad practices'. Pack and Send is all over the reviews; I guess they made the site owner change the title. Notably they haven't challenged any of the substance of my review. They know they're in error but are ducking and weaving as best they can.

Pack and Send are aiming to expand and steal business from Oz Post and they seem to be very sensitive to bad press.
I previously recommended them to everyone but they're showing their true colours with Simon's case.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by brian nordstrom

Me to. Logan , we can't let them get away with this. .
I just told them nicely that they have lost my custom and all my friends over the shoddy treatment they are dishing out here .
We need to keep at them.

Brian.

I've sent them a blast so the number of direct responses to Pack and Send is increasing. All I can say is, "put yourself in Simon's place". I'd be outraged and sick to my stomach if it was me so I hope others will wave the red flag in support as well.

[JA]

Originally Posted by baileys2611

I'm not sure it is valid - I recall somewhere that any company has to make exclusions specifically known to the buyer and when I had gone out of my way to try and communicate what I knew, notwithstanding that these were outside of their normal policies, it does not feel reasonable to me that they can accept payment and the goods, then exclude liability on the basis of keeping a document somewhere saying they don't want to be responsible.

Sorry to hear of your woes.....
They may have a policy on excluding certain types of items from shipment; however, if you made the item known to them and yourself classified it as scientific equipment in the docs to them, sounds like you have a contract in which you have some specified terms. They accepted the money - with modified terms on the payement and signing of your documents.

I would speak to NSW Fair Trading / Consumer Affairs and get them to help deal with the matter/make a claim. Good luck !!

Best
JA

[baileys2611 (Simon Bailey)]

Originally Posted by JA

Sorry to hear of your woes.....
They may have a policy on excluding certain types of items from shipment; however, if you made the item known to them and yourself classified it as scientific equipment in the docs to them, sounds like you have a contract in which you have some specified terms. They accepted the money - with modified terms on the payement and signing of your documents.

I would speak to NSW Fair Trading / Consumer Affairs and get them to help deal with the matter/make a claim. Good luck !!

Best
JA

My thoughts exactly - this was an open transaction, I did not try to hide anything and even though it was a 'self service' transaction, I went out of my way to show exactly what was being sent.

I'm still pursuing them, last I sent a message in relation to the competition and consumer act covering cases similar to this during retail where terms and conditions should be advised during the transaction. The same thing applies to online purchases, the retailer should not be able to place unreasonable terms or conditions upon a sale without making the consumer aware of these conditions. Fitness for purpose comes to mind.

I'm still barking up the tree. No response at all.

I will certainly be contacting NSW fair trading soon. I tend to give at least 10 business days time between escalations, the last was send about 10 days ago so it's probably time for the next escalation.

[yoda776 (Matt)]

I had the same experience with p&s. Although the franchise where i am at least told me when i queried luckily otherwise i would have gone online.

If i use them then i go instore to find out. I have had bad dealings with other companies shipping goods before and warranty always has exceptions or some poor excuse why it can't be paid out when things go wrong.

I never get the extended warranties on cars for that reason alone.

Sorry to hear about everyone's experience. P&s have been ok for me. Brilliant no, but serviceable.

Originally Posted by casstony

Give 'em hell Rom

I got an unhelpful 'blah blah' reply from the P&S National Field Support Manager today, but I did let him know that many people are watching Simon's case to see what sort of company we are dealing with.

Part of the Managers reply was:
"The online self-service option is a different operating platform, catering for high volume, lower value items that are able to be sent without the advice and expertise of a Pack Send representative.
Scientific equipment and any form of astronomy equipment would certainly be a type of item that would need to be sent through one of our logistics experts at a Service centre"


So it seems we should not send any astronomy equipment via P&S Online; they may accept your warranty payment but you'll have no cover.

[xelasnave]

The situation may be explainable this way.
Their insurer like so many will use any means to avoid a claim.
I suspect that is the real problem.
The insurance company does not care if they damage the reputation of their client.
Companies fail to understand this.
What has happened is wrong and to use a nonsence to avoid payment is no more than theft unfortunately but the company you used is being shafted as well... Insurance companies take the money with a resolve to keep it.

My advice is pour it on.

Do a letter send it to every politician state and federal. Find out who is not paying ...is it the company or their insurer. Send copies to everyone TV radio etc and send copies individually to the company and their insurer.
Or write it off and never speak of it again accept the loss and learn many crooks dress like normal folk and strike harder than the nastiest criminal for they are worse as they pretend they are within the law.
I am sure you can win at court but you won't believe the cost probably 3 fold the price of the mount and even though your lawyer will tell you the court awards costs that figure is a small percentage of his fee.
I would point out to the company their insurer is costing them business and not doing their job. The scientific equipment is crap they know it and if not that one they will find another.

Alex

[Shano592 (Shane)]

If the value tops at $5k, then you can utilise the CTTT in NSW. No lawyers, and legally binding judgment.

I think it may set you back $50 or so to get a time slot.

Then when your win is in the public records, you can flash the link to all and sundry! Although I reckon they would try to settle without blame.

[DarkKnight (Kev)]

I had a similarly frustrating experience with AP a couple of years back. I sold a DSLR camera on eBay to a gent in Victoria and sent it registered and insured post. About five days after posting the buyer contacted me to say that the tracking # I sent him showed the parcel as delivered, and that he certainly had not received it.

I won't waffle on about the frustrations of the following six weeks, police and ombudsman intervention etc, but will suffice by saying that the parcel was delivered to the wrong Post Office, put in the right PO box # (at the wrong PO) and signed for by the wrong person, who said he thought it was an empty box (it weighed over 1kg) and put it into his recycle bin.

OK, I've looked at your tracking record (like reading War and Peace) and there are some inconsistencies.

]21 Jul 201614:06 In Transit - (BOTANY, AU) - ORIGIN SCAN
21 Jul 201615:06 In Transit - (BOTANY, AU) - ORIGIN SCAN
22 Jul 201607:04 In Transit - (LOS ANGELES, US) - ARRIVAL SCAN
22 Jul 201608:25Note - THE PACKAGE IS AWAITING CLEARING AGENCY REVIEW. / YOUR PACKAGE WAS RELEASED BY THE CLEARING AGENCY.
22 Jul 201617:00 In Transit - (BOTANY, AU) - DEPARTURE SCAN
22 Jul 201618:00 In Transit - (BOTANY, AU) - DEPARTURE SCAN

- 21 Jul 201615:06 In Transit - (BOTANY, AU) - ORIGIN SCAN - One would assume your package was still at Botany

- 22 Jul 201607:04 In Transit - (LOS ANGELES, US) - ARRIVAL SCAN - Not bad, 16 hours for flight, unloading, and delivery to Customs

- 22 Jul 201618:00 In Transit - (BOTANY, AU) - DEPARTURE SCAN - Hmm, can one assume that the parcel was in fact still at Botany, or did this entry just pop into the system from cyberspace?

Was it all sent in one box? If not, and the shipping label was marked '1 of 2' or whatever, it could be that some of the delivery is in the USA, and some of it is still languishing in Botany.

I'm sure you've discussed the inconsistencies of the tracking record with P&S, and copied it before it mysteriously disappears from their website.

They do, at least in my mind, some unusual things. I sent a large parcel, delivered to their Newcastle depot, to North Queensland and it's first movement was to Sydney, then back past Newcastle on it's way north. Doesn't seem like a very efficient way to run a business.

Anyway I'd be asking P&S how a package can be scanned in LA at 07:04 and then again at 17.00 in Sydney, on the same day. Something very fishy going on.

As far as your loss is concerned I'd be looking for what you paid for the mount, plus anything you've spent on it, plus the cost of the freight.

And don't let them try to steamroll you with this 'scientific instrument' mumbo-jumbo as the mount is a mechanical device, full stop.

Do keep harassing them, daily, until you receive compensation. The old adage 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease' applies here, and once they realise that you are not just going to let it go, their attitude will change.

I read above where you are about to contact Fair Trading and I think it would also be prudent to involve the appropriate ombudsman.

You have made full disclosure so you have nothing to fear in your attempts to be compensated for their stuff-up.

Good luck in your endeavours to get a fair go.

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Well said Alex , they are not getting any more of my business ( or my friends. ) because of this carry on , hope they are following this. .
On the. Squeaky Wheel , that's the ticket. ! Bombard the buggers. .
Brian.

Originally Posted by xelasnave

The situation may be explainable this way.
Their insurer like so many will use any means to avoid a claim.
I suspect that is the real problem.
The insurance company does not care if they damage the reputation of their client.
Companies fail to understand this.
What has happened is wrong and to use a nonsence to avoid payment is no more than theft unfortunately but the company you used is being shafted as well... Insurance companies take the money with a resolve to keep it.

My advice is pour it on.

Do a letter send it to every politician state and federal. Find out who is not paying ...is it the company or their insurer. Send copies to everyone TV radio etc and send copies individually to the company and their insurer.
Or write it off and never speak of it again accept the loss and learn many crooks dress like normal folk and strike harder than the nastiest criminal for they are worse as they pretend they are within the law.
I am sure you can win at court but you won't believe the cost probably 3 fold the price of the mount and even though your lawyer will tell you the court awards costs that figure is a small percentage of his fee.
I would point out to the company their insurer is costing them business and not doing their job. The scientific equipment is crap they know it and if not that one they will find another.

Alex

[xelasnave]

Hi Brian,
I could be wrong but there are probably two entities in the game, well three when you include the customer.
We have the company that delivers the service of parcel delivery and another entity their insurer.

The delivery company I expect turns over matters of loss to the insurer and probably, reasonably, expects the insurer to pay out.
That is why the delivery company pays insurance.
The insurer tries to pay out as little as possible and in that effort not only shafts the customer but in effect shafts the delivery company.
If you write a complaint I would be pointing this out to the delivery company....and add words to the effect...just because your insurer won't do what you pay them to do that does not relieve you from your obligation to me to compensate me for my loss you need to pay me and if they don't pay you then get an insurer who will support your good name rather than destroy your hard earned goodwill.

Send a copy to the CEO, the board, the prime minister, any industry association, and every MP and opposition member you can think of...When doing this with lollies its normal to send something to the minister but by sending letters to everyone each one of them redirects your letter to the relevant minister, so not only does he get your original letter but a continual flow of redirected letters.
Does it work?
Well I don't know but it sure is a lot of fun.

And when you send a letter..wait a week and send another.
.".I refer to my letter of x instant and would be pleased to have the curteousey of a reply.
Please advise if you have received my letter if you have not yet addressed the matters therein..."

You can ramp it up by sending a photo of you biting the head off a chook so you stand out as someone to be handled with respect and great care.
Alex

[PCH (Paul)]

You're a bloody comedian Alex, for sure. Certifiable maybe, but funny definitely.

I almost fell off my chair at the chook part, lol.

[xelasnave]

Hi Paul

A note to go with the photo...

I would have posted the Chook but you would probably lose it...don't worry I will deliver it personally...

And thanks for you kind compliments.

Alex

[PCH (Paul)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Hi Paul

A note to go with the photo...

I would have posted the Chook but you would probably lose it...don't worry I will deliver it personally...

And thanks for you kind compliments.

Alex

I'll be standing by the front gate with garlic hanging around my neck

[baileys2611 (Simon Bailey)]

Hi Everyone,

Quick update. I've sent two more letters, spaced evenly apart, heard nothing. Have gone to the NSW office of fair trading and got advice from ACCC. All of whom are very nice, warm and friendly by no actual outcome yet.

Will keep going. Meantime my scope and accessories deserve use so I'll sell them off gradually.

[casstony]

Glad to hear you're still pursuing them Simon. P&S might change their position if they start getting please explain letters from government bodies.

[baileys2611 (Simon Bailey)]

Hi Everyone,

In keeping with my updates on this.

...there is light...near the end of the journey.

I cannot say that it has been a pleasant journey or a short one, but something is happening now and I'm not able to say exactly what because I don't yet know the terms and what confidentiality I need to keep.

I cannot thank everyone enough for their support over this time. What an amazing community. You only know me as a bunch of electrons appearing in a forum, but you've gathered to support me nonetheless.

With a bit of luck, I'll be back in the community contributing more than words, albeit with slightly lower costing equipment (which is in no way reflective of lower quality).

[blindman]

I am sorry for your horrible experience.
For all guys - if you do not know Pack&Send is just middle man, they do nothing, just grab money and maybe give you to sign Indemnity for subcontractors who does main thing, i.e. SHIPPING.
If it is not stolen by someone in P&S, you have to find out which CO-loader are they using, and then you may progress with your investigation.
Good luck!

[oilydog (Michael)]

How did you go mate? Did you get a good resolution?

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by baileys2611

Hi Everyone,

I cannot thank everyone enough for their support over this time. What an amazing community. You only know me as a bunch of electrons appearing in a forum, but you've gathered to support me nonetheless.

We like electrons 'ere

I for one pounded them but good and have not used Pack & Send since. It is a great community, that's for sure; the generosity I have personally experienced lately has exceeded my wildest expectations