Pack & Send woes

baileys2611 (Simon Bailey) · #1 08-10-2016, 12:55 PM

For reference, others may have had a different experience but this one is particularly bad for me.

I will never use PACK & SEND or recommend them for any goods and services. I sent my Paramount MX via them to America for servicing.

...they lost it...

No compensation, no replacement, continuous refusal to even refund the money for shipping. I'm in the middle of an explanation with them about my rights under the competition and consumer act, I'm not a lawyer but am at least attempting to discuss the issue of not having a mount with them.

No success

Slawomir (Suavi) · #2 08-10-2016, 01:02 PM

That's horrible. Hopefully the mount will be located.

multiweb (Marc) · #3 08-10-2016, 01:36 PM

Did you tick the freight Warranty for loss and damages?

casstony · #4 08-10-2016, 02:48 PM

I've had one poor experience with pack and send, but the outcome of your situation depends entirely on warranty - if you paid for cover then you will get paid one way or another.

el_draco (Rom) · #5 08-10-2016, 05:28 PM

Terrible story but not the experience I have had with Pack and Send. Mine has been the absolute opposite but I'll be watching this thread to see how it plays out.

baileys2611 (Simon Bailey) · #6 08-10-2016, 09:36 PM

Re warranty & loss, they are claiming that because it's scientific equipment, it was not eligible for sending via their service in the first place.

Notwithstanding this, it was clearly marked in the consignment and booking form and was accepted by them. No one at any stage pointed out that this could not be sent by them and I personally delivered it to the shop front in Belconnen, I opened the box up, showed them what it was and had a conversation about it.

It was being sent to America for service and repair, eligible for replacement at market value or insurance value, whichever is less. What is the market value of a broken mount?

RickS (Rick) · #7 08-10-2016, 10:51 PM

Stick to your guns, and hopefully you can beat them into submission.

casstony · #8 09-10-2016, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baileys2611

Re warranty & loss, they are claiming that because it's scientific equipment, it was not eligible for sending via their service in the first place.
?

I looked at their policies online and they say that scientific equipment isn't to be sent by the online self service but it can be sent via the service centres. I've sent telescopes via the online service several times and they've accepted the package marked as such, including my payment for warranty, but supposedly the telescope isn't covered?

I'm going to contact them next week and ask for my warranty payments to be refunded and ask why they accepted my packages. Apparently we should not be using P&S online for any astronomy gear.

Zuts · #9 09-10-2016, 11:04 AM

Hi,

I received a 9.25 ota that I got second hand. I was going to use pack and send but went with DHL. When I told them it was a telescope the insurance cost went up from around $1.50 per hundred to around $10 per hundred as it contained glass.

Quite expensive but at least i knew I was fully insured against loss and or damage.

casstony · #10 09-10-2016, 11:36 AM

P&S has a gold service which includes warranty for broken glass when booked through a service centre.

I spoke to people at the Boronia depot about sending refractors via P&S Online with warranty against loss of the package but not broken glass and they said that was fine, but there was no mention about scientific instruments not being covered by the warranty.

I've emailed P&S customer service asking for an explanation. If Simon doesn't get his warranty payout it might be time for a Checkout F U Tube.

baileys2611 (Simon Bailey) · #11 09-10-2016, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuts

Hi,

I received a 9.25 ota that I got second hand. I was going to use pack and send but went with DHL. When I told them it was a telescope the insurance cost went up from around $1.50 per hundred to around $10 per hundred as it contained glass.

Quite expensive but at least i knew I was fully insured against loss and or damage.

Hi Zuts,

I think based on my experience, insurance or not doesn't seem to matter. If they attempt to exclude any payout based on their application and interpretation of what goods are being sent - or even try to exclude on the basis or a retrospective application of the same, then you are in for an argument.

I'd recommend to everyone that they check personally with a representative before sending scopes and mounts, describe exactly what is being sent and state that if the company classifies this as something that cannot be sent via their service, then they must tell you it's excluded before accepting the goods. Record the outcome in writing!

Having said that, I did exactly this and it hasn't made a difference to my outcome.

baileys2611 (Simon Bailey) · #12 09-10-2016, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casstony

P&S has a gold service which includes warranty for broken glass when booked through a service centre.

I spoke to people at the Boronia depot about sending refractors via P&S Online with warranty against loss of the package but not broken glass and they said that was fine, but there was no mention about scientific instruments not being covered by the warranty.

I've emailed P&S customer service asking for an explanation. If Simon doesn't get his warranty payout it might be time for a Checkout F U Tube.

Hi Tony,

Just wanted to say thanks.

The claim I'm making needs to be for consequential loss and damages. A warranty claim has been rejected because a) it was broken and direct value is not able to be calculated and b) it was not eligible to be sent on the basis it was 'scientific equipment'.

Will keep you posted.

casstony · #13 09-10-2016, 02:49 PM

Simon I suspect that you've simply run into the first of this insurer's firewalls (ie. reject all claims) and that repeated attempts will get you further along the path.
If the word gets around about the apparent recalcitrant nature of P&S chosen insurer I imagine they'll lose some business. It's when you need help from a company that you find out whether they're worth dealing with.

phomer (Paul) · #14 09-10-2016, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baileys2611

Hi Tony,

Just wanted to say thanks.

The claim I'm making needs to be for consequential loss and damages. A warranty claim has been rejected because a) it was broken and direct value is not able to be calculated and b) it was not eligible to be sent on the basis it was 'scientific equipment'.

Will keep you posted.

Simon,

Two thing come to mind with regard to this.

1) A mount does not contain glass
2) A mount on its own cannot possibly be classed as a scientific instrument

You have probably used the word telescope in your description and they have latched onto it.

Regardless, unless you have misled them about the freight and you meet the stated conditions they cannot justify not accepting responsibility.

My guess is you would have been better off saying that the mount was going back to the manufacturer for maintenance.

Regards

Paul

baileys2611 (Simon Bailey) · #15 09-10-2016, 03:28 PM

Hi Paul,

I classified it as scientific equipment and put in the purpose of shipping to America was for repairs and maintenance so that everyone was 100% clear on what this was and why it was going somewhere. I've worked in Customs and get jittery when sending anything that may have export control applied to it. Not that I know it does for sure but wanted to be clear anyway.

I also explained this to the people at Pack & Send in Belconnen - who were quite interested in it and opened up the box to have a look at what it was, we even had a discussion about the colour. They were required to open the box anyway to check the contents and be satisfied that the packing was adequate - something about insurance I remember

The only thing I think I did wrong was not state the value of the shipment at the cost of a new mount. I had no idea what the value of a broken mount was

. I also involved my home insurance agent as the mount was a named item on my insurance, but without getting a report from SB on why the mount was broken in the first place there is nothing that they can do about this.

*sigh*. It's not an adversity...it's a passage...

Visionoz (Bill) · #16 09-10-2016, 04:01 PM

Perhaps try the Insurance Ombudsman or Consumer Affairs in your state (myabe I'm stating the already obvious beaten path!).

Best bet is to work with your insurance broker who normally helps in such situation as they normally do not want to lose out on a "good client" who they're supposed to be "looking after" anyway.

HTH
Cheers
Bill

Atmos (Colin) · #17 09-10-2016, 04:38 PM

Arguably it would be worth whatever a second hand mount is worth minus what it would cost to fix it and then a bit more for inconvenience.

For instance, if you have a $15,000 mount new, second hand it may be worth $10,000. If it had an electrical board issue that would cost $1,000 for shipping, labour and part replacement then it could be worth about $6-7,000 if everything else about it is in excellent condition.

Not knowing what the problem is as it never made it, that does make it more difficult.

Octane (Humayun) · #18 09-10-2016, 04:54 PM

Reading this made me sick in my guts.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Hopefully the mount is found!

H

casstony · #19 09-10-2016, 05:14 PM

Depending on the outcome of various experiences, there's a P&S review site here: http://www.productreview.com.au/p/pack-send.html

Surprisingly there are a lot of negative reviews, but I haven't read the details yet.

rrussell1962 · #20 09-10-2016, 05:55 PM

This thread is a cause for concern. I suspect that many of us on here have used Pack and Send to ship goods. I have been trawling through their terms and conditions and buried in there is a specific exclusion on using the online self book service for goods with a value over $3000. The ridiculous thing is that anybody on here shipping a valuable piece of equipment is far more capable of packing it appropriately than the local Pack and Send depot is. Their terms and conditions also seem to exclude liability for international shipments.