Japan Denies WWII History

[rat156]

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

Can you please explain or elaborate on what treatment of the indigenous population today you are referring to. Truly I am missing a important point here.

Aboriginal health statitstics
2..3 Aboriginal infant mortality rate compared to other Australians. 80% die under the age of one.

3 Aboriginal death rate compared to the total Australian population.

1.95 Rate at which Aboriginal people are hospitalised compared to non-Indigenous people.

125 Number of Indigenous doctors practicing in Australia, compared to 60,000 non-Aboriginal doctors [13].

44% Percentage of adult (15-plus) Aboriginal people reporting ‘excellent’ or ‘very good’ health in 2008, unchanged from 2002 [20].

76% Percentage of Indigenous infants (aged 0-3 years) who were breast-fed in 2008 [20].

36 Times sexually transmitted Gonorrhoea is more prevalent in Indigenous communities than in other communities [17].

30 Times Aboriginal children are more likely to suffer from anaemia and malnutrition due to iron deficiencies [16].

7..12 Times 25-34 year-old Aboriginal Australians are more likely to die from heart disease than non-Aboriginal Australians [11].

25% Percentage of Aboriginal people who reported having used an illicit substance in the last 12 months (stable rate between 2002 and 2008) [9].

1.6 Times Aboriginal people are more likely to have recently used cannabis than non-Aboriginal people [6].

0.8% Percentage of the overall Federal health expenditure in 2009 which was spent on Aboriginal health [24].

30% Percentage of adults in Aboriginal communities suffering from type-2 diabetes [3].

13% Number of Indigenous homes having functioning water, waste, cooking and cleaning facilities (of 4,000 Indigenous homes surveyed during 1998-1999 in the Northern Territory).

6.5 Times an Indigenous youth aged 15 to 24 is more likely to have sexually transmitted infections [1].

12.4% Percentage of Aboriginal people aged over 45 years with dementia. Same rate for non-Aboriginal people: 2.6% [14].

60% Percentage Aboriginal people are more likely to die from all cancer types than non-Indigenous people [8]. Cancer is the second leading cause of death for Aboriginal people.

6 Times sexually transmitted Chlamydia is more prevalent in Indigenous communities than in other communities [17].

10 Times Aboriginal people living in remote communities are more likely to develop dementia than people living in countries such as Africa, India or Indonesia [15].

5% Percentage of clients of disability services in 2008/9 who were Aboriginal. Same figure for the NT: 50% [7].

83% Percentage of Aboriginal children in the NT who had some decayed, missing or filled teeth. Average waiting time between referral and receipt of service: just over 14 months [12].

References for above
. www.hollows.org [1] Koori Mail 394 p.11 [2] Koori Mail, 413, p.6 [3] ‘Diabetes crisis is forum target’, Koori Mail 473 p.14 [4] ‘Service makes a difference’, Koori Mail 510 p.23 [5] ‘Hepatitis danger in the spotlight’, Koori Mail 507 p.51 [6] ‘Grim findings in drug survey’, Koori Mail 507 p.30 [7] ‘More utilising disability help’, Koori Mail 493 p.53 [8] ‘Study looks at cancer death rates’, Koori Mail 474 p.32 [9] ‘Small smoking fall but grog ‘a worry”, Koori Mail 494 p.22 [10] ‘Tooth decay fears raised’, Koori Mail 507 p.4 [11] ‘Art with heart heads to Townsville’, Koori Mail 487 p.46 [12] ‘NT study confirms problems’, Koori Mail 497 p.51 [13] ‘A column by our own doctors’, Koori Mail 438 p.54 [14] ‘Dementia danger’, Koori Mail 412 p.49 [15] ‘Dementia dangers’, Koori Mail 487 p.9 [16] ‘Ironing out anaemia’, Koori Mail 484 p.57 [17] ‘Sexual health plan is a first’, Koori Mail 479 p.66 [18] ‘A shamed nation turns a blind eye’, SMH 16/11/2009 [19] ‘Action urged on mental health’, Koori Mail 511 p.42 [20] ‘Gains, but the gap is still wide, study finds’, Koori Mail 463 p.9 [21] ‘Conference gets to heart of solutions’, Koori Mail 504 p.47 [22] ‘What’s in a name?’, Koori Mail 515 p.36 [23] ‘Programs win report praise’, Koori Mail 519 p.68 [24] ‘Call for more accountability’, Koori Mail 466 p.11 [25] ‘I didn’t feel a thing – Part 2′, Hepatitis NSW: Transmission Magazine #9, 9/8/2011 p.23
- See more at: http://www.naccho.org.au/aboriginal-....vOGcoGcg.dpuf

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by rat156

Aboriginal health statitstics
2..3 Aboriginal infant mortality rate compared to other Australians. 80% die under the age of one.

3 Aboriginal death rate compared to the total Australian population.

1.95 Rate at which Aboriginal people are hospitalised compared to non-Indigenous people.

125 Number of Indigenous doctors practicing in Australia, compared to 60,000 non-Aboriginal doctors [13].

44% Percentage of adult (15-plus) Aboriginal people reporting ‘excellent’ or ‘very good’ health in 2008, unchanged from 2002 [20].

76% Percentage of Indigenous infants (aged 0-3 years) who were breast-fed in 2008 [20].

36 Times sexually transmitted Gonorrhoea is more prevalent in Indigenous communities than in other communities [17].

30 Times Aboriginal children are more likely to suffer from anaemia and malnutrition due to iron deficiencies [16].

7..12 Times 25-34 year-old Aboriginal Australians are more likely to die from heart disease than non-Aboriginal Australians [11].

25% Percentage of Aboriginal people who reported having used an illicit substance in the last 12 months (stable rate between 2002 and 2008) [9].

1.6 Times Aboriginal people are more likely to have recently used cannabis than non-Aboriginal people [6].

0.8% Percentage of the overall Federal health expenditure in 2009 which was spent on Aboriginal health [24].

30% Percentage of adults in Aboriginal communities suffering from type-2 diabetes [3].

13% Number of Indigenous homes having functioning water, waste, cooking and cleaning facilities (of 4,000 Indigenous homes surveyed during 1998-1999 in the Northern Territory).

6.5 Times an Indigenous youth aged 15 to 24 is more likely to have sexually transmitted infections [1].

12.4% Percentage of Aboriginal people aged over 45 years with dementia. Same rate for non-Aboriginal people: 2.6% [14].

60% Percentage Aboriginal people are more likely to die from all cancer types than non-Indigenous people [8]. Cancer is the second leading cause of death for Aboriginal people.

6 Times sexually transmitted Chlamydia is more prevalent in Indigenous communities than in other communities [17].

10 Times Aboriginal people living in remote communities are more likely to develop dementia than people living in countries such as Africa, India or Indonesia [15].

5% Percentage of clients of disability services in 2008/9 who were Aboriginal. Same figure for the NT: 50% [7].

83% Percentage of Aboriginal children in the NT who had some decayed, missing or filled teeth. Average waiting time between referral and receipt of service: just over 14 months [12].

References for above
. www.hollows.org [1] Koori Mail 394 p.11 [2] Koori Mail, 413, p.6 [3] ‘Diabetes crisis is forum target’, Koori Mail 473 p.14 [4] ‘Service makes a difference’, Koori Mail 510 p.23 [5] ‘Hepatitis danger in the spotlight’, Koori Mail 507 p.51 [6] ‘Grim findings in drug survey’, Koori Mail 507 p.30 [7] ‘More utilising disability help’, Koori Mail 493 p.53 [8] ‘Study looks at cancer death rates’, Koori Mail 474 p.32 [9] ‘Small smoking fall but grog ‘a worry”, Koori Mail 494 p.22 [10] ‘Tooth decay fears raised’, Koori Mail 507 p.4 [11] ‘Art with heart heads to Townsville’, Koori Mail 487 p.46 [12] ‘NT study confirms problems’, Koori Mail 497 p.51 [13] ‘A column by our own doctors’, Koori Mail 438 p.54 [14] ‘Dementia danger’, Koori Mail 412 p.49 [15] ‘Dementia dangers’, Koori Mail 487 p.9 [16] ‘Ironing out anaemia’, Koori Mail 484 p.57 [17] ‘Sexual health plan is a first’, Koori Mail 479 p.66 [18] ‘A shamed nation turns a blind eye’, SMH 16/11/2009 [19] ‘Action urged on mental health’, Koori Mail 511 p.42 [20] ‘Gains, but the gap is still wide, study finds’, Koori Mail 463 p.9 [21] ‘Conference gets to heart of solutions’, Koori Mail 504 p.47 [22] ‘What’s in a name?’, Koori Mail 515 p.36 [23] ‘Programs win report praise’, Koori Mail 519 p.68 [24] ‘Call for more accountability’, Koori Mail 466 p.11 [25] ‘I didn’t feel a thing – Part 2′, Hepatitis NSW: Transmission Magazine #9, 9/8/2011 p.23
- See more at: http://www.naccho.org.au/aboriginal-....vOGcoGcg.dpuf

Thanks Stuart for the detailed reply and I have come across some of these statistics before. I will not profess that I have any solution to these issues but getting good health care and education to the remote communities that the indigenous population reside in has always been an issue. What do you propose we the people or even the government do particularly when the governments (state and federal) can even get basic rural health care sorted. I have never worked or been associated with indigenous affairs but I believe until we can get their education sorted some of these issues cant be resolved.

One statistic you mentioned Number of Indigenous doctors practicing in Australia, compared to 60,000 non-Aboriginal doctors Is that really the fault of the government or us non-Aboriginal people. Universities do provide reserved positions for Aboriginal and Torres Strait so the question is why aren't these positions being filled?

[rat156]

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

Snip ... What do you propose we the people or even the government do particularly when the governments (state and federal) can even get basic rural health care sorted. snip

https://www.oxfam.org.au/act/events/...e-the-gap-day/

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

One statistic you mentioned Number of Indigenous doctors practicing in Australia, compared to 60,000 non-Aboriginal doctors Is that really the fault of the government or us non-Aboriginal people. Universities do provide reserved positions for Aboriginal and Torres Strait so the question is why aren't these positions being filled?

This is precisely the attitude I expected, I'm not having a go at you Hans, believe me, it's what our Governments (of either persuasion), Federal, State and Local have been peddling for decades. "The black fella won't help himself, it's his fault" is the kind of racism that should have died out long ago, but you still hear it today from younger, more educated people than myself, it sickens me.

Not that long ago a good friend of mine (a New-Zealander) pointed out Australian's subliminal racism. I questioned him, so he pointed out when we were doing it in normal conversation. Once it's pointed out to you, you can't help but hear it, I still do it from time to time, he's quick to point it out. We each try to correct one another's behaviour, but mine was much worse than his.

Similarly, like you, I once believed the Government line about the poor conditions the indigenous population of this land. I did some research, I talk to some indigenous Australians, I got to know a little bit about their culture. I conceded that I had been wrong, I apologised, I vowed to not hear (or in this case see) the great injustice and not challenge it. I have pledged to "close the gap".

Please do some research of your own, read the Oxfam website, draw your own conclusions.

Stuart

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by rat156

Aboriginal health statitstics

Lies... damned lies .... and statistics.

I have no argument against the notion that the treatment of the indigenous population of Australia (historically) has been of similar magnitude of barbarity as that displayed by the Imperial Japanese Armed services during WW2... I was actually going to raise the point myself. however, quoting health statistics such as these to establish or reinforce the idea is counterproductive because the majority of people will realise that it implies an overriding cultural agenda that simply is at odds with reality. I am not trying to discount the accuracy of the statistics, just the notion that they reflect some sort of apartheid mentality in the rest of the Australian populace (basically made up entirely of boat people and their descendants.) It is intellectually dishonest. (and therefore invalid) as distinct from the grievances aired by the Australian aboriginal people, some of which are entirely valid.

[ianB (Ian)]

Politically speaking I am neutral, I am an Australian resident but was born in the UK, since living in Australia on and off for the past 33 yers I have seen the fights that Aborigines have had on and off over the last three decades over a numerous issues.
And as i observe these things and the way in which the governmet responds, as well as the general populace, I get a feeling of, for want of a better word, sadness and at times injustice, during debates as to what aboriginies should or should not be entitled to etc I think to myself that Cpt Cook took possession of Australia in the name of King George III
in the year 1770, now if the average person lives for say 85 years thats less than three life times ago.
Less than three life times ago the indigenous people of this land had everything taken, or to be precise stolen from them, everything.
Now here we are, less than three life times in the future, deciding what they are allowed to have, what land they are entitled to own and use.
As I said I am politically neutral, I am not taking sides with anyone, these are just my personal thoughts and observations.

[blink138 (Pat)]

@ian
"politically speaking i am a neutral"
i regards to our indigenous people:
"sadness", "injustice", "took posession (of)", "everything taken", indeed "stolen...., everything"
quote: "as i said i am politically neutral, i am not taking sides with anyone"
well i am glad you clarified that then mate!
pat

[noeyedeer (Matt)]

Originally Posted by iceman

Oh dear Matt, I'd hate to hear your thoughts on 9/11.

I deleted 2 of your posts for being inappropriate for this forum. Many people have found them offensive.

no probs Mike sorry to all involved.

matt

on 9/10 .. Rumsfeld states trillions (or was it billions) of unaccountable pentagon dollars .. next day accounting area of the pentagon wiped out ... hmm. .. that's my view

[noeyedeer (Matt)]

Originally Posted by astroron

I have too dispute on this, There was a thing called "Shell Shock" which many suffered from, that they were not treated very well for it was just a way of the time.
Ever since man has fought wars there have been these problems.
Lots of times it was treated as cowardice etc.
Today we are a more considerate society and treat these people who after all put their lives on the line to serve their country.
I used to see the guy who suffered Shell Shock when I was a kid in England after the war, they were mocked by us kids, who Knew no better
I feel for servicemen who have PTSD, it cannot be good for them or their families.
I am an ex soldier and can understand what they went through, even though I didn't have a very bad active service time.
War is Hell and should not be taken lightly,like some politicians seem take it.
Cheers

I know Ron .. that's what I meant by they were as tough as nails because there wasn't the help and support service people have these days. tough or not ..they didn't have much choice.

matt

[Zaps]

Originally Posted by blink138

@ian
"politically speaking i am a neutral"
i regards to our indigenous people:
"sadness", "injustice", "took posession (of)", "everything taken", indeed "stolen...., everything"
quote: "as i said i am politically neutral, i am not taking sides with anyone"
well i am glad you clarified that then mate!
pat

Another outsider's perspective here.

Having lived and worked in the south of the USA, a region where racism is not only deeply embedded but actually institutionalized, I have to say I'm often dumbfounded by the degree of casual racism I encounter in Australia on a daily basis.

In the USA we have the dreaded "N word," but here you have so many racial epithets for so many races and use those words so blithely and often in everyday speech that even if I wanted to I couldn't keep up with them all.

It's not neutral to claim to see no racism, which is what you were hoping.

[Barrykgerdes]

I think it is time to close this thread. It has gone off the rails and is becoming a platform for people expressing pet views way outside the scope of the original reference.

Barry

[Kunama]

I am continually astounded by the discussions I find under the Forum Heading that reads:

"General ASTRONOMY Chat, Astronomy Media, Star Parties & Events, Observing Chat, Astronomy Science and more."

I wish there was an "Ignore" button for sub-forums, as some of these topics generate much disharmony within a community which came together due to their love of astronomy.

Just saying ...........

[iceman (Mike)]

There's nothing wrong with some occassional 'off-topic' chat in General Chat.

As a community, that's natural and expected - people have lives and opinions outside of just astronomy and they often want to share with their astronomy friends.

So sometimes we let off-topic threads run, even though they're sometimes on the border of appropriateness - there's many grey areas and grey topics.

In this case, I think enough has been said and it's time to lock it.