Japan Denies WWII History

[noeyedeer (Matt)]

yeah I know MattT.. it was published in the 50s or something like that. I'm only going by what I saw in the doco, not when or what was written in the book, having not read the book.
matt

[KenGee (Kenith Gee)]

er Matt as they say far better to be thought a fool then post drunk online and remove all doubt .

[iceman (Mike)]

Oh dear Matt, I'd hate to hear your thoughts on 9/11.

I deleted 2 of your posts for being inappropriate for this forum. Many people have found them offensive.

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by noeyedeer

.. no post war distress disorder or whatever it's called these days .. those guys were tough as nails ..

matt

They WERE tough. But there WAS battle fatigue and PTSD, plenty of it. To come back from such a horrendous experience, and then just function normally and go shopping in Woolies, was too much for human beings.

Cheers

[hotspur (Chris)]

I wonder what Japanese people think when they visit other countries and there are movies such as 'Unbroken' and 'Railway man' and many others on view, in this and other countries.

Saw this link of WWII images in another forum-not sure what they tell future generations in Japan,but truth of this magnitude cannot be covered forever.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured...ers/#more-1547

[astroron (Ron)]

Originally Posted by noeyedeer

so sad. ww2 was such a horrific war .. no post war distress disorder or whatever it's called these days .. those guys were tough as nails .. and now this! no wonder I am kinda racist. to clarify I don't have any friends that aren't Caucasian.

matt

I have too dispute on this, There was a thing called "Shell Shock" which many suffered from, that they were not treated very well for it was just a way of the time.
Ever since man has fought wars there have been these problems.
Lots of times it was treated as cowardice etc.
Today we are a more considerate society and treat these people who after all put their lives on the line to serve their country.
I used to see the guy who suffered Shell Shock when I was a kid in England after the war, they were mocked by us kids, who Knew no better
I feel for servicemen who have PTSD, it cannot be good for them or their families.
I am an ex soldier and can understand what they went through, even though I didn't have a very bad active service time.
War is Hell and should not be taken lightly,like some politicians seem take it.
Cheers

[togo54 (Tom)]

Finished reading a book called Unbroken just the other day. A very good read. Japanese people as a rule should not be categorized with the Emperor influenced military of the day. I agree with some posts as to the cruelty of the Japanese military of yore but I disagree with the comparisons to Hitler. Hitler was far worse. If anyone would like to read Unbroken, message me your contact info and I'll share the book with you. It is in epub format.

[ianB (Ian)]

When it comes to War, EVERY nation has, and is committing cruel acts, either to indviduals with torture ( the recent events at Guantanamo bay demonstrate this ) or to selected communities, this has been the case in the past and is the case in the present, fo example in recent times in Yugoslavia and at the present time in Israel and elsewhere.

And when, in modern times, such acts are carried out and neutral nations stand by without taking any action, other than having so called Peace talks, do they not share in the blame?
If you saw a helpless person being set upon by thugs and it was within your powwer to help but you turned away, would you not be accountable in some way yourself? If not legally morally?

I take no sides when it comes to killing and torture, what the Japanese did was cruel and severe, but lets not kid ourselves here, cruel and severe acts have been committed by every nation, not only in the past but also in the present, as such in my opinion everyone that takes part in such things are accountable for their actions, but accountable to who?

To single out one nation for their atrocities while downplaying or ignoring the cruel behaviour of others seems to me to be a case of tunnel vision, now I am not saying people here in this thread are like this, these comments that I am making are just my thoughts in general, not specific to anyone here.

Also should one generation be held accountable for the acts of the previous generation?
Of course not.

[rcheshire (Rowland)]

When I was living and working in Japan between 2003 - 8, rewriting of Japanese history in school text books, particularly in relation to China, was a hot topic.

I worked with Japanese people at very close quarters and it is fair to say that most perceive the war years and perhaps the years of colonialism, and the cruelties associated with these times, as the misguided ambitions and arrogance of post modernisation.

My experience was of a deeply exclusive and predjudiced nation who tolerate and take the best of what they can of foreign interests. Having said that I met some of the finest peope I have ever encountered and some of the most doubtful.

A survey, during my stay there, found that the large majority of Japanese did not want a return to the ways of the former years. There is however, a strong nationalist movement.

A captive of their system for 5 years, perhaps I suffer from Stockholm syndrome, but it is the philosophical bent that seems to add a harsh edge to being Japanese or indeed wise to the dangers of Japanese society - these people did not fair well in the workplace and were often overlooked, if not actively suppressed.

I suspect that Japan may present itself to outsiders according to its preferences.

There is significant danger in forgetting, let alone denying, history.

[rcheshire (Rowland)]

Originally Posted by astroron

I have too dispute on this, There was a thing called "Shell Shock" which many suffered from, that they were not treated very well for it was just a way of the time.
Ever since man has fought wars there have been these problems.
Lots of times it was treated as cowardice etc.
Today we are a more considerate society and treat these people who after all put their lives on the line to serve their country.
I used to see the guy who suffered Shell Shock when I was a kid in England after the war, they were mocked by us kids, who Knew no better
I feel for servicemen who have PTSD, it cannot be good for them or their families.
I am an ex soldier and can understand what they went through, even though I didn't have a very bad active service time.
War is Hell and should not be taken lightly,like some politicians seem take it.
Cheers

"Railway Man" - Colin Firth and Nicole Kidman.

My closest colleague is Japanese. He is a fine fellow.

[Barrykgerdes]

History of wars is what the winners want you to know. WW11 was rather tame in the killings and torture that went on in previous wars but because it affected so many people it is looked on as the most terrible. I see today is the aniversary of the bombing of Dresden that killed 35000 civilians. Did they really need to die to prove a political point?

The modern Japanese probably want to forget all about the bad side and political correctness is the same in Japan as anywhere else. Who can blame them for wanting to erase the bad side of the war

History was taught in my school days from books that were printed prior to WW11. I would expect that most of them have been well and truly destroyed now as they presented views of the past that are not politically correct now. We were very nationalistic in those times.

Barry

[AndrewJ]

Gday Baz

I see today is the aniversary of the bombing of Dresden that killed 35000 civilians. Did they really need to die to prove a political point?

From what i read, Dresden at the time was also a major logistics centre, and as such was deemed fair game. No different to the Luftwaffe bombing Coventry etc. to clog up the "system" behind the front.
Wiping out the logistics train behind an army can be just as effective as facing the army head on, but much less costly on your own troops.
Not saying its nice, but when has war been nice?????

Andrew

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by togo54

Finished reading a book called Unbroken just the other day. A very good read. Japanese people as a rule should not be categorized with the Emperor influenced military of the day. I agree with some posts as to the cruelty of the Japanese military of yore but I disagree with the comparisons to Hitler. Hitler was far worse. If anyone would like to read Unbroken, message me your contact info and I'll share the book with you. It is in epub format.

IMHO Stalin was worse than Hitler and Hitler was surrounded by people worse than him...and no I am not discounting his crimes in WWII.

[hotspur (Chris)]

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

IMHO Stalin was worse than Hitler and Hitler was surrounded by people worse than him...and no I am not discounting his crimes in WWII.

I have a elderly client on a property-looking after her lands.Her husband was Polish,he always said the Russians were far worse than the Germans,he said at least the Germans 'kept there word'-i.e if you go past this line you will be shot,the Russians just shot people when ever they felt like it (usually when drunk).He said they were animals.

Poor chap was a POW for five years and then a displaced persons camp for another four years.One fellow he knw was John Paul (became a Pope).Some interesting stories,said when the French POW came in,he and other Pols thought they might have some tucker to share-but no-all the had was aftershave and toiletries and similar!

Not sure what the Tom Waterhouse odds are on this thread being closed,but thought I'd post before its closed.

The is an old painting in the ladies house her husbands' brother saved asd the Germans burnt the house down-the German officer said you can take what you can carry-he had so much the officer could not believe one man could carry so much.Awful to try and think what these people went through.

[ianB (Ian)]

My grandmother was raped by polish soldiers buring WW2 and my grandfather was placed into a concentration camp by the Germans ( he survived )

The past is the past i have no negative feelings against any polish or german people.

I can appreciate that older people who lived through the war may retain negative feelings and thats understandable, but we live in the hear and now and to hold onto what such and such a nation did during the war will only stir up bad feelings and really serves no useful purpose, " but we can learn from these thing " some may say, well if they do think thats the case i must disagree, look at the world today, hardly a day has passed without conflict somewhere in the earth sincce 1945.
The plain fact of the matter, the reality, is that war in one for or another will continue, no lesson however harsh has been learned, the USA the UK, Australia and so on have all taken part in some horiffic actions against no only other armies but against innocent people since the end of WW2.

The facts are undeniable and to say otherwise is to bury your head in the sand.

Japan is not alone in being an aggressor and treating others inhumainly, if other nations took a hard look at themselves in the mirror i am sure that they too would not like what they see.

[rat156]

If you're talking genocide and war crimes, we did pretty well when we first colonised this joint, continues to this day. The fact that there are no fully indigenous Tasmanian brothers (or sisters) is a past wrong which cannot be re-written, we should feel ashamed, but not responsible, like what a modern day Japanese or German person might feel about atrocities committed during WWII.

But the killing goes on, for that we are responsible.

Stuart

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by noeyedeer

nah it was some documentary I watched on Nat geo, based on some guys book and declassified fbi files. it was interesting. there's a bit on the web about it and how the DNA testing of the bunker bones were inconclusive etc...

matt

Go and watch Iron Sky, a great Scandinavian documentary on what really happened.

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by rat156

If you're talking genocide and war crimes, we did pretty well when we first colonised this joint, continues to this day. The fact that there are no fully indigenous Tasmanian brothers (or sisters) is a past wrong which cannot be re-written, we should feel ashamed, but not responsible, like what a modern day Japanese or German person might feel about atrocities committed during WWII.

But the killing goes on, for that we are responsible.

Stuart

Sorry Stuart but I will never feel ashamed of what was committed in the past in this country in regards to the indigenous people, which I do not deny happened. Why? because I was not born in the generation that these events occurred. A person should only feel ashamed if they witness an injustice and fail to act to oppose it.

[rat156]

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

Sorry Stuart but I will never feel ashamed of what was committed in the past in this country in regards to the indigenous people, which I do not deny happened. Why? because I was not born in the generation that these events occurred. A person should only feel ashamed if they witness an injustice and fail to act to oppose it.

Fair enough, so are you ashamed of our treatment of the indigenous population today? Or are you acting to oppose it?

Stuart

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by rat156

Fair enough, so are you ashamed of our treatment of the indigenous population today? Or are you acting to oppose it?

Stuart

Can you please explain or elaborate on what treatment of the indigenous population today you are referring to. Truly I am missing a important point here.