What happened to manners?

[Baddad (Marty)]

And a gentleman went in front of the lady up the stairs. (The lady following) Ah! Can you remember why? And can you explain it in the polite and tactful way it was explained to me?

A gentleman would always light a lady's cigarette.
Seated gentlemen always arose when a lady stood up or entered a room.
Times have changed.

Some years ago in the vicinity of the Adelaide law courts, I was told that the male lawyers never opened doors for women or performed any of the gentlemanly functions. Lest they be accused of gender discrimination.
I'd like to see a case like that up before the courts.

Cheers

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

I can remember my grandmother seternly telling me to always walk on the kerbside of a lady. She didn't ex[lain why, just that it was the done thing.
And woe betide me if I held my knife and fork the wrong way.
Mind you table manners were not really important in their own right, it was my parents way of teaching us that good manners were important.

Malcolm

[Mariposa (Amalia)]

Sadly there are less and less people with good manners, but I make them a standard in my life, I don't expect everybody to appreciate it, if somebody reacts badly, I don't care, they lose. But I can see how a simple smile and a caring gesture can make somebody else's day. There are too many unhappy people in this world, people who take themselves too seriously. I call myself feminist, in the sense that I believe a woman has the same rights and obligations as men, and should have the same opportunities, this has nothing to do with women who believe they are somehow superior to men, I feel sorry for the women who think that way and angers me that they give feminism a bad name.

[LewisM]

Well, needless to say wife and I are bringing our 4 year old up "Old School". She is a delight - sits at a table when out at a restaurant, doesn't fiddle or play or be stupid. Just sits and eats and talks to us etc. Mouth close chewing naturally

Wife is a Russian born and bred and works as a psychiatrist - Russian women EXPECT manners and chivalry still to this day. Failing to do so means no woman Simple! Poor manners are simply NOT accepted in Russia, else you be branded what amounts to an animal.

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by MrB

Hi Lewis,
I could have sworn I sent you a PM!
I honestly thought I had but I have just looked thru my sent items box and there is no PM there
I do apologise profusely for the lack of reply.
Everyone(there are many!) that I have previously dealt with in Icetrade has always received a thank you message when the item has arrived.
I am buggered if I know how I missed sending you one. Only thing I can guess I was at work(where you sent the item) and got distracted, thought I had hit send but didn't and then closed the window
Again, my apologies.

If it is worth anything now, many thanks for ML
It is now living quite happily on a small Stellarvue 70ED and is a massive improvement over the standard focuser which was made worse by abuse from the SV70ED's previous owner(s)(though they deny any knowledge of damage )

Many thanks again

Thanks Simon

[RB (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by MortonH

While we're at it, let's not forget to thank Mike and Terry for another great year of running this website. Plus all the moderators of course!

Originally Posted by brian nordstrom

Yes , and thanks Mike and all the moderators for putting up with me ....
Brian

Thank you Morton, Brian and all our members, wishing everyone a very happy and safe New Year.

Kind Regards
Andrew

[cfranks (Charles)]

I still open a door for , well, really anyone, but especialy ladies. I suppose I am too old to change but if there is no response from the person, and unfortunately it is nearly always a younger woman, I say "you're welcome" fairly loudly.

I read somewhere long ago about the decline in civility being a sure sign of a declining society.

Charles

[LewisM]

We rent out rooms as we own a flat. We get so many people looking through, telling you they will let you know but NEVER do. We had a decent young guy (uni graduate) check out the room. GReat manners and accord right from the start.

He sent an SMS yesterday telling us he had decided on another room, but thank you for the time and effort to show him the room etc. I was well pleased with that guy - if he ever needs a room, he's got it!

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

Originally Posted by LewisM

And chivalry is WELL and truly dead too. Rarely do I see men opening doors for ladies (and have been scorned at by obviously extreme feminist women I have done it for!) or pulling out their chair or opening their car door. Let alone anyone younger standing on a bus or train to let an older person sit.

Today's society is all about Numero Uno.

Sad how we are becoming less human than the computers we make...

Feminist Nazis give all women a bad name.
I'll open the door to anyone who has their hands full, and offer to help carry a load that is awkward.

Last year, I had to catch a train into town for a court case. I had only got out of hospital a few days before from my thyroid op and still had yukky bandages around my neck, (couldn't remove them for a couple more days) I was feeling crook as a chook. It was an early morning train, and full of passengers. I ended up having to sit on the floor. Not one person who was staring at me the whole journey had the heart to offer me a seat.
If I wasn't so crook I would have yelled at all of them.

And people wonder why I live a hermit life style. People in general are heartless and self centred.

[rat156]

Bloody hell, I thought I was a crabby old fart! Oh no hang on, I AM a crabby old fart, I don't know what that makes you people, but complaining about someone not acknowledging an act of kindness is in another league. Seriously people, do you not see, just a little bit of hypocrisy when you complain about manners (or the lack thereof), then in the same post have a whinge about people not saying thanks for posting in a thread or sending you a message when a trade has been finalised?

I rarely, if ever, follow up on a sale or purchase after the deal is done and the goods are sent/received, I don't do this for any other purchase, either physical or over the Internet. I mean, I don't ring up the supermarket once I get my shopping home saying it got there.

When I perform an act of kindness, be that opening a door, giving up a seat, I don't do it so I receive thanks, I do it because that's what you should do, regardless of whether the recipient says anything (good or bad). I will continue to do so, because that's what I do and that's what I expect of others.

Cheers
Stuart

[rat156]

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

Feminist Nazis give all women a bad name.

I should also point out that "Feminist Nazi" is oxymoronic at best and downright rude and insulting at worst. Perhaps calling others names should not be in a post about "manners"?

Cheers
Stuart

[beren]

When I perform an act of kindness, be that opening a door, giving up a seat, I don't do it so I receive thanks, I do it because that's what you should do

agreed

[Kunama]

Originally Posted by rat156

............................ I rarely, if ever, follow up on a sale or purchase after the deal is done and the goods are sent/received, I don't do this for any other purchase, either physical or over the Internet. I mean, I don't ring up the supermarket once I get my shopping home saying it got there............................


Cheers
Stuart

I think the difference here is that this is not a supermarket, it is a community of mostly likeminded people and with that comes a reasonable expectation of honesty, politeness, courtesy and respect for each other.

[FlashDrive (Poppy)]

Originally Posted by LewisM

Well, needless to say wife and I are bringing our 4 year old up "Old School". She is a delight - sits at a table when out at a restaurant, doesn't fiddle or play or be stupid. Just sits and eats and talks to us etc. Mouth close chewing naturally .

Good On You Lewis ... Keep going Mate ...She will thank you for it in years to come.... and will no doubt ..pass it all on to her ' little ones ' if she has them.

A perfect example of how a child can be bought up WHEN THE PARENT HAS CONTROL ( lovingly ) over than own.

Flash ..!!

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

I use the term "Feminist Nazi" to describe those women who abuse gentlemen for their chivalry.
Their extremism is despicable. The title is meant to be rude and insulting. Just like their behaviour.
I've seen them in action, and I've seen the hurt they have caused.
I'm ashamed to call myself a feminist because we all get lumped into the same category as them.

[adman (Adam)]

Opening doors, giving up seats etc etc for women stems from the view that women are the weaker and/or inferior sex - prone to frailty, hysteria etc - it goes all the way back to original sin.

Unfortunately, somewhere along the way it has become "good manners" to rub women's noses in this fact at every opportunity. When a male gives up his seat on the bus for someone purely because they are a woman, he might as well say to them "Here, have my seat. You are a woman, and less able to stand on your own two feet than I am." It is no wonder that some women get a little cranky about it.

I have no problem showing acts of kindness, and will willingly give up a seat or open a door for someone less able-bodied than myself. But never simply because of someone's gender.

As for manners in general, just about every generation since time immemorial has predicted the end of society as we know it due to the declining moral standards and manners of its younger members. If nothing changed, we would still be covering the bare legs of pianos in case it excited the men too much to see them.

Human societys are fluid things, ever changing and adapting to the conditions of the times. I am not saying that all change is for the better, however manners are relative, not an absolute. The behaviour that we grew up with would have been viewed with similar dismay by the previous generation, and will be seen as quaint and old fashioned by the next.

People get to an age where they start to fear change, and any departure from what they are used to is bad. The cranky old fart is an archetype for a reason.

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

Kindness, respect and good manners towards others is the social lubricant that enables a civilized society to run smoothly.

[naskies (Dave)]

Originally Posted by LewisM

I have to admit in all my sales here, NOT ONE buyer has ever even said they received their item, let alone a thank you or comment.

As one of your recent buyers, I assume that you're including me? Yes, I do apologise (again) for not sending you a message promptly upon receipt of the item.

When you politely asked whether the item had safely arrived, I recall immediately replying yes it had, apologising for the lack of reply, and explain the circumstances of why it happened (an honest oversight that occurred between relocating from Adelaide back to Brisbane, and receiving many different items at the same time). Looking through my message history, I can see that I replied to your messages promptly and there were multiple "thank you" messages along the way too

Just to play devil's advocate... from my perspective my first impression of you was that of a very courteous seller - like the vast majority of people on IIS. Then I read that in response to your neighbour commenting on your scope, you decided to insult her rather than share the joys of astronomy. Furthermore, you're also quite happy to make use of other people's property without checking in with them first. Finally, I see myself (and other IIS members) being the subject of this passive-aggressive rant. Manners indeed!

Note that I'm neither offended by this thread nor trying to cause any offence. I'm just showing how relative and subjective "good manners" can be, and how people who may seem bad mannered based on limited interactions probably think of themselves as being well mannered. I try not to fret over the small things, act as well mannered as I can during my interactions with others, and don't expect others to conform to my world views.

Originally Posted by adman

Human societys are fluid things, ever changing and adapting to the conditions of the times. I am not saying that all change is for the better, however manners are relative, not an absolute.

Hear, hear! I completely agree with all of Adam's post

[Colin_Fraser]

Originally Posted by astroron

I have noticed that too, also there are people on here who don't give one the courtesy of a reply when you send them PM's or post on their thread's
Cheers

Yes, I too have noticed that.
By the way, did you get the Java problem fixed on your laptop?

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=100349

[LewisM]

Now now David, don't play your guilty conscience I actually was NOT referring to you, I knew your circumstance etc. and we had discussed it.

As to the neighbour issue, manners is one thing, but being attacked in the first place is not going to set me in a very hospitable nature with someone. First impressions do count, regardless of what people say, and if she was going to be all hostile and narky right from the first word, well, I wasn't going to hold my tongue. She showed no manners to me, and berated me in a very sarcastic and accusative intonation, so, yes, I quipped sarcasm back at her. Each successive "incident" - mainly in her mind - I totally held my tongue and said NOTHING to her. It is more courteous and manneristic to say nothing, rather than say something at all in such circumstance. Note like I said, I have NEVER cussed at her, nor said a harsh word to her, merely one quip of sarcasm after being first berated.