Truckies down a few pegs....

[Lumen Miner (Mitchell)]

It is not a moot point, it is what the term "Group think" is totally hinged upon.

What you are describing is a driver making an assesment of the situation and then joining the group, they were not pressured, intimidated, ostresised or coersed into it.

That is called decision making.

"Group think" in its most primitive definition, is a situtation in which direct responces to stimulus are degredated, by the primal instinct to conform to the group regardless of it making logical sense to the individual.
The term "Group think" is only ever used when there is no external judgement / decision made by the individual prior to conforming with the group.

If you make your own decision whether it is influenced or not by the situation (other cars pulled over) prior to joining the group, it is not considered "Group think". It is joining the group because of a relevant reason.... it's raining heavily.

[Lumen Miner (Mitchell)]

Interesting example, that may have more relevance to you.

This exert describes situations of "Group think".
Making a decision (whilst taking into account your situation) to follow the group, is not "Group think".

Some rules in the flying community and the Air Force in general, are often overlooked when the crew has been out on the road for several weeks or months and is experiencing the all too insidious "get-homeitis." Weather requirements suddenly look more like a suggestion than the binding rules they are. Minimum essential equipment lists abruptly become open to interpretation in ways that the author most likely never intended. And we must never forget the golden oldie impromptu air show of, "My parents have a farm down this way and nobody will mind if we make a couple of low passes for the family. And besides, I did it the other day with so-and-so and they had no problem with it."

These types of situations become very dangerous because members of the crew may feel intense negative peer pressure to go along with an otherwise ill-advised course of action. Even if the individual suggesting the shaky idea surveys the crew to get their opinion, there is still a good chance that individuals will not speak up even if they don't like the idea or think it's unsafe. The likelihood of receiving honest and accurate feedback in these situations also quickly diminishes if the proposal is coming from an individual of higher rank or popularity amongst the group. Some may think that this is an occurrence that can only happen to a young or inexperienced crewmember, or that we are all encouraged to give our input honestly when asked, but accident statistics would indicate otherwise. This is a recurring problem that knows no age or rank barriers and costs the Air Force millions annually in lost equipment and personnel. We must work as a team to reduce, if not eliminate, its tragic results.

If you see the links in the accident chain materializing, and start to feel the preverbal hairs on the back of your neck standing up, its time to open your mouth and discuss the situation as a crew. It does not mean that every decision needs to be debated in detail or agreed upon as a community; however, the working environment should be such that opinions are respected even if not always acted upon.

This is not strictly a flight related problem and can often manifest itself the strongest in our junior ranks. No one enjoys being the squeaky wheel, and our younger members can often see their friends and popularity wane when they go against the grain. Hundreds of lives each year could be saved if friends would act like friends and stop that person from driving when they've had to much to drink, applying the principles of ORM before that rock climbing trip, or telling your friends they have been driving too long.

It's often hard to go against the group and the strength of their ideas, but if you see the unplanned/unauthorized low-level developing, or a group of friends who have been drinking and want to drive, or hear the "let me show you what this aircraft can do" statement, own up to your individual responsibility as a crewmember and say, "Stop! Let's talk about this." These are just a few examples of the negative group dynamics that have plagued the military and society in general, for years. The group you go against today may be around tomorrow simply because you were not afraid to be a leader and speak up!

[KenGee (Kenith Gee)]

This an easy problem to fix . Set the speed limit to 80kph first speeding ticket you loose your license for 6 months and back to p plates. Second offence 1 year, third forever, fourth jail. problem solved, how may lives is your travel time worth?

Sydney to Melbourne is 880 km’s so dropping to 80 will problem increase travel time by 2 to 3 hours. Just think of the lives that maybe saved and the fuel.

[iceman (Mike)]

This thread is full of over-emotion and far too many people bypassing the profanity filter with $$ and @@ and whatever else.

Edit your posts before I delete them or delete the whole thread.

If you can't post without keeping your emotions and swearing in-check, then don't post.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Lumen Miner

.....These types of situations become very dangerous because members of the crew may feel intense negative peer pressure to go along with an otherwise ill-advised course of action....

I'll paraphrase your group-think definition above:

"( These ) situations become very dangerous because the driver may feel intense negative family pressure to go along with an ill-advised course of action (stopping on a Highway in low visibility with trucks still doing their legal limit of 100km/hr ) "

We could go around in circles over this, but neither of us know the group dynamic inside the cars involved.

My assessment of the situation (and almost without exception also by south-bound drivers) was to slow down to a reasonable clip.

The truckies didn't slow at all. But that may well have been due to them being well above the spray height of the car traffic and could see fairly well.

The driver that nearly stopped in the right lane was an accident waiting to happen....in fact, it nearly did.......that instance probably wasn't a case of group think...just a really bad decision.

[mill (Martin)]

First of all, i am from europe and i have never seen worse and more scared drivers as in Australia.
This rain situation on the Hume highway is just going back to allowing parents to teach their children to drive.
With this i mean as an example: my wife teaches my kids to drive and they stay scared and way to careful.
After months of driving lessons from my wife, my daughter didn't get anywhere and was still scared of other traffic around her.
Then i was teaching her to drive and forced her to drive the speed limit all the time (before she was doing 15K under).
After a while she became a confident driver and looked ahead.
With this i am saying that if you don't teach children defensive driving and also confident driving, the traffic will stay crap for a long time to come.
Some examples: going onto/off the freeway with 60K/hr, stopping at a roundabout (even when nothing is approaching from the right).
A tiny bit of rain and people start to drive slow straight away.
You can pick out the drivers who are confident and are looking ahead straight away (they are the ones who keep driving but also adjust to slower drivers).
Also a lot of people think they are the only ones on the road and whenever they switch on their indicator, it means they have right of way and they just move in your lane and you just have to get out of the way for them.
PS: i still don't understand why people slow down on the freeway while they can do that on the long off ramp and only start to speed up as soon as they are on the freeway(who is so dumb to go onto the freeway with 60 to 80Km/Hr is beyond me, but i see it every day).

[that_guy (Tony)]

i know this is a bit off topic but I saw a gang of MOPEDS(!)in the highway doing way below the speed limit because their little moped engines couldn't handle it... isn't there a sign when entering highways, freeways and motorways where it says No Mopeds, tractors, animals, bicycles, and pedestrians??

Just thought of getting this off my chest...

[Kal (Andrew)]

I was coming home from Newcastle one night going across the mooney mooney bridge when the rain was so torrential that I had to slow down to 40 km/h and I could barely make out the lane markers/concrete barrier let alone the car in front of me. If any moron truckie was doing 100km/h in those conditions then they should be shot in the head.

[Barrykgerdes]

Originally Posted by that_guy

i know this is a bit off topic but I saw a gang of MOPEDS(!)in the highway doing way below the speed limit because their little moped engines couldn't handle it... isn't there a sign when entering highways, freeways and motorways where it says No Mopeds, tractors, animals, bicycles, and pedestrians??

Just thought of getting this off my chest...

I don't think mopeds are included in Australia
Barry

[Louwai (Bryan)]

Originally Posted by mill

First of all, i am from europe and i have never seen worse and more scared drivers as in Australia.
This rain situation on the Hume highway is just going back to allowing parents to teach their children to drive.

I fully agree Martin.
90% of the problems & driver attitude on our roads is caused by parents teaching their kids to drive & passing on all their bad habits.

ALL driver training should be done by a certified Driving Instructor.

Earlier today, coming home from the airport, there's a L plater sitting on 4oklm/hr in the right lane & holding up traffic. PLENTY of oportunity to move over, but no. Just stayed in the right.
It was a young girl with (I assume) dad in the passenger seat.
Dad should be booked...........

[Barrykgerdes]

Whatever is said about the trucks is irrelevant. They own the roads curtesy of the truck transport lobby that funds the political parties so they can do what they like.

Is that enough to close the thread Mike?

Baz