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  #21  
Old 09-10-2016, 09:08 PM
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baileys2611 (Simon Bailey)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrussell1962 View Post
I have been trawling through their terms and conditions and buried in there is a specific exclusion on using the online self book service for goods with a value over $3000. ... Their terms and conditions also seem to exclude liability for international shipments.
Yes I think they tried to claim that one on me also. I haven't catalogued the reasons why they won't discuss this anymore but the reasons against seem to outweigh the reasons for.

The thing is, if it's accepted by them for sending and none of this is made known by them to the purchaser of the services, is it any more or less valid?

I'm not sure it is valid - I recall somewhere that any company has to make exclusions specifically known to the buyer and when I had gone out of my way to try and communicate what I knew, notwithstanding that these were outside of their normal policies, it does not feel reasonable to me that they can accept payment and the goods, then exclude liability on the basis of keeping a document somewhere saying they don't want to be responsible.

What about negligence in handling? That's possible and should not have any exclusions at all. Equally possible, it might not have been negligence, but isn't the rule of being a bailee that regardless of what is excluded by policy, they must make good what has been lost?

Since nothing is proven at the moment - other than that the mount is having a jolly time where where it shouldn't be - then it's all speculation.

Persistence and determination.
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  #22  
Old 09-10-2016, 10:12 PM
sharpiel
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Open a dialogue with Alex (xelasnave). He's a retired lawyer and a good person. Can't guarantee this is his area of expertise but he may be able to point you towards someone who can help.
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  #23  
Old 09-10-2016, 11:19 PM
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Stonius (Markus)
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Do you have a small claims court in NSW? We have VCAT here which was established to make sure that justice wouldn't simply favor those with deep pockets.

My point is, if there is such a thing in NSW, starting down that route might prod them into action (or at least assessing the probable pain defending the case would cause).

I would have thought if they accepted the package knowing what it was, they're responsible for it, regardless of 'policy'.

-Markus
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  #24  
Old 10-10-2016, 08:07 PM
el_draco (Rom)
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Originally Posted by casstony View Post
I looked at their policies online and they say that scientific equipment isn't to be sent by the online self service but it can be sent via the service centres. I've sent telescopes via the online service several times and they've accepted the package marked as such, including my payment for warranty, but supposedly the telescope isn't covered?

I'm going to contact them next week and ask for my warranty payments to be refunded and ask why they accepted my packages. Apparently we should not be using P&S online for any astronomy gear.
I've sent multiple scopes by Pack and send online and never heard a squeak. Now I am seriously irritated and will be contacting them for a please explain. Not good enough and I suspect I was damn lucky now. If enough of us query this, maybe we'll get a result. Can we get a con number to quote so that they know exactly which shipment we are concerned about? A bad review can cost them a shiet load more than what they are avoiding!
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  #25  
Old 10-10-2016, 10:14 PM
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kinetic (Steve)
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Probably of no help at all but maybe worth mentioning here as another avenue...
I had a raw deal with servicing repairs on my family car about a year ago.
My car had a 4 year extended warranty that had about a month before it ran out....that I had forgotten about.
I initiated servicing on the back end suspension of which the quote came back as $1700!
The car was unsafe to drive, so I reluctantly went ahead with the repairs.
Better to make the car safe for the wife and kids.
Then I remembered the 4 year warranty and asked the dealer if any / some or all of this work was covered by the warranty.
Guess what, the answer came back, sorry Steve, almost none of the work is covered.
I didn't feel satisfied by this and asked for a breakdown of what their disclosure statement and item list was compared to the booklet I fished out of our drawer. They didn't agree.
So I looked online and there was a part of the insurer's own website that said something like, "If you aren't satisfied that you have received a fair
outcome lodge a short summary of your experience and we will look into it"
Answer came back around 24 hrs later, sorry Steve but we don't cover this, this, this, this and this, so you are up for $1700.
By this stage, I had the car back but I still felt hard done by.
These things that were replaced were major lifetime components of the car's suspension, not consumables like brake pads for example.
So I found another website called the insurance industry ombudsman.
Same deal, " If you feel that your experience with your insurance provider left you unsatisfied with their product lodge a complaint"
So I did.
Within 24 hours there was an offer of resolution by the insurer and any correspondence between the parties was seen by the ombudsman.
So they could witness anyone being difficult and anyone trying to co-operate to resolve it.
I had the majority of the bill waived.
I would love to name the insurer

Steve
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  #26  
Old 10-10-2016, 10:32 PM
casstony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el_draco View Post
I've sent multiple scopes by Pack and send online and never heard a squeak. Now I am seriously irritated and will be contacting them for a please explain. :
Give 'em hell Rom

I got an unhelpful 'blah blah' reply from the P&S National Field Support Manager today, but I did let him know that many people are watching Simon's case to see what sort of company we are dealing with.

Part of the Managers reply was:
"The online self-service option is a different operating platform, catering for high volume, lower value items that are able to be sent without the advice and expertise of a Pack Send representative.
Scientific equipment and any form of astronomy equipment would certainly be a type of item that would need to be sent through one of our logistics experts at a Service centre"


So it seems we should not send any astronomy equipment via P&S Online; they may accept your warranty payment but you'll have no cover.
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  #27  
Old 11-10-2016, 06:50 AM
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Slawomir (Suavi)
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A horrible story but I really hope the mount will be located successfully. But how can such a large box be lost? It has been either sent somewhere to a wrong location or stolen by P&S staff - I see no other possibilities

Last edited by Slawomir; 11-10-2016 at 07:13 AM.
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  #28  
Old 11-10-2016, 01:32 PM
UniPol
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Originally Posted by Slawomir View Post
A horrible story but I really hope the mount will be located successfully. But how can such a large box be lost? It has been either sent somewhere to a wrong location or stolen by P&S staff - I see no other possibilities
That's right, it has to be somewhere and someone knows where it is. A large heavy box doesn't vanish into thin air surely. The mount would be of no use to anyone you would think, but there are a lot of opportunist devious people out there as we all know.

I think P & S have a moral obligation to track the mount down irregardless of whether it was insured or not, is scientific equipment or not etc. I would definitely pursue every avenue at your disposal to recover the mount. If you become unpopular so be it, after all, money has been paid out for a service you haven't received.

Last edited by UniPol; 12-10-2016 at 11:12 PM.
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  #29  
Old 12-10-2016, 11:08 PM
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baileys2611 (Simon Bailey)
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Hi UniPol and Slawomir,

The exact same thoughts occurred to me. It's 30kg in weight, 60 * 60 * 38 cm in size, not usable in the state I sent it (motherboard pulled out, cables not connected), requires specialist training and experience and software to use. How on earth is this worth anything to anyone other than me?

It's a crazy world I think. I even google earthed SBs address and got a cold sweat when it looked like an abandoned site, I then double checked with them and they confirmed they haven't gone anywhere.

& thanks Tony, Draco, Steve, Markus, Sharpiel for your advice also. I'm hopeful they will find this - but it's been a few months now. Being obstinate is going to kick in at some stage I think but I'm trying to assume goodwill.

Draco their reference number is AUW01138696D, you can see the status updates on Pack & Send's website (https://online.packsend.com.au/TrackTrace) and enter the reference.
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  #30  
Old 13-10-2016, 09:38 AM
rally
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Is an amateur grade mount really "scientific equipment" ?
Somewhere there must be a definition of "scientific equipment".
At what level does a mount cease being a consumer item and progress into being scientific equipment ?
Are you a scientist using this equipment for scientific purposes or were you just using it as an amateur hobbyist ? I am assuming not, so why would there be any reason for you to have considered this.
Is it covered by your household insurance ? or any other insurance ?

Might be worth getting a lawyer involved.
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  #31  
Old 13-10-2016, 09:46 AM
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multiweb (Marc)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baileys2611 View Post
Draco their reference number is AUW01138696D, you can see the status updates on Pack & Send's website (https://online.packsend.com.au/TrackTrace) and enter the reference.
That last scan here was done in Botany. Is it possible that it never left Australia and is still here? If the US (Louisville) can't find it, maybe it never got sent, despite the departure scan. Worth investigating? I doubt it'd get lost during the actual transit. It has to be at the destination or departure point.
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  #32  
Old 13-10-2016, 09:55 AM
sharpiel
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Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
That last scan here was done in Botany. Is it possible that it never left Australia and is still here? If the US (Louisville) can't find it, maybe it never got sent, despite the departure scan. Worth investigating? I doubt it'd get lost during the actual transit. It has to be at the destination or departure point.
For those of us old enough to remember the original Raiders of the Lost Ark movie: the final scene where the crated Ark is dollied to the back of a vast warehouse never to be found again, comes to mind...
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  #33  
Old 13-10-2016, 10:43 AM
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multiweb (Marc)
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Originally Posted by sharpiel View Post
For those of us old enough to remember the original Raiders of the Lost Ark movie: the final scene where the crated Ark is dollied to the back of a vast warehouse never to be found again, comes to mind...
Making sure the lid is kept closed.
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  #34  
Old 13-10-2016, 11:50 AM
el_draco (Rom)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baileys2611 View Post

Draco their reference number is AUW01138696D, you can see the status updates on Pack & Send's website (https://online.packsend.com.au/TrackTrace) and enter the reference.
I like getting in the faces of unprincipled pricks. I've done a lot of business through this company and I am seriously chapped now. I'll see whose head I can smack.

Rom
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  #35  
Old 13-10-2016, 02:51 PM
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Slawomir (Suavi)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rally View Post
Is an amateur grade mount really "scientific equipment" ?
Somewhere there must be a definition of "scientific equipment".
At what level does a mount cease being a consumer item and progress into being scientific equipment ?
Are you a scientist using this equipment for scientific purposes or were you just using it as an amateur hobbyist ? I am assuming not, so why would there be any reason for you to have considered this.
Is it covered by your household insurance ? or any other insurance ?

Might be worth getting a lawyer involved.
A scientific instrument is an instrument used for scientific purposes. Most are measurement instruments.

Sounds to me that a wooden ruler could also fit into this category...
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  #36  
Old 13-10-2016, 03:06 PM
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Steffen
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Originally Posted by Slawomir View Post
[I]Sounds to me that a wooden ruler could also fit into this category...
Rulers are typically classified as weapons of math instruction
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  #37  
Old 13-10-2016, 08:34 PM
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Logieberra (Logan)
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I sent P&S a private message on their Facebook page. Keep at them Simon, on all fronts. Others might like to do the same. Logan.
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  #38  
Old 14-10-2016, 10:26 PM
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GrahamL
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This is terrible service all round from this company
Could it of transited to louisville ,quebec ,Canada rather than Kentucky ?
Freight company once sent my stuff to the wrong end of the country on the name of a forwarding depot.
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  #39  
Old 15-10-2016, 10:18 AM
brian nordstrom (As avatar)
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Me to. Logan , we can't let them get away with this. .
I just told them nicely that they have lost my custom and all my friends over the shoddy treatment they are dishing out here .
We need to keep at them.

Brian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logieberra View Post
I sent P&S a private message on their Facebook page. Keep at them Simon, on all fronts. Others might like to do the same. Logan.
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  #40  
Old 16-10-2016, 11:31 AM
PeterM
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This is just an awful read and I really feel for you Simon.
It's one thing to lose something in your possession but the possibility of theft must surely be considered at some point.
I wonder what the obligations on a shipper are to investigate/report whether or not a theft has potentially occurred while in their possession? And how they would rule this out to your satisfaction? If a theft then seems likely who informs the authorities?
I also assume you have informed Software Bisque just in case... That would then make it difficult to on sell a mount needing repairs
Depending on the outcome it might be worth posting the serial number of the mount on every Astro forum available around the world.
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