Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieTrooper
Conspiracy nutters can never be rationally discussed with. Any who try, soon find that out.
One of them is a mate of mine. Good bloke, but craps on about the 9/11 being fake,
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The idea that anyone who questions the narrative of the establishment is a nutter strikes me as a bit polemic (and evidence of being not particularly well informed)
As for 911 being fake.... is he really suggesting that it never happened, or just not accepting of the officially syndicated Sky news 'conspiracy theory'
Being that 6 of the 19 alleged perpetrators were protesting their innocence AFTER 9/11, it's only rational to accept that the story fed to us by the Murdoch press isn't a completely factual account.
And let's take a look at what the 9/11 (report) commissioners had to say about it:
9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says “I don’t believe for a minute we got everything right”, that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue.
The 9/11 Commission chair said the Commission was “set up to fail”
The Commission’s co-chairs said that the CIA (and likely the White House) “obstructed our investigation”
9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that “There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn’t have access . . . .”
9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said “We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting”
9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: “It is a national scandal”; “This investigation is now compromised”; and “One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up”. When asked in 2009 if he thought there should be another 9/11 commission, Cleland responded: “There should be about fifteen 9/11 commissions”
The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) – who led the 9/11 staff’s inquiry – said “At some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened“. He also said “I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years…. This is not spin. This is not true.”
No wonder the Co-Chair of the congressional investigation into 9/11 – Bob Graham – and 9/11 Commissioner and former Senator Bob Kerrey are calling for either a “PERMANENT 9/11 commission” or a new 9/11 investigation to get to the bottom of it.
And some comments from government officials...
Senator Max Cleland – Former member of the 9/11 Commssion, resigned December 2003. U.S. Senator from Georgia 1996-2002.
Boston Globe Article 11/13/03: "If this decision stands [to limit 9/11 Commission access to White House documents], I, as a member of the commission, cannot look any American in the eye, especially family members of victims, and say the commission had full access. This investigation is now compromised."
http://archive.boston.com/news/natio...withheld_data/
Senator Mike Gravel – U.S. Senator from Alaska 1969 - 1980. He is most well known for entering over 4,000 pages of the Pentagon Papers into the U.S. Senate record, thus making public the secret official study that revealed the lies and manipulations of successive U.S. administrations that misled the country into the Vietnam War.
National Press Club speech 9/9/10: "The [9/11 Commission's] investigation was not what we call an investigation. It was to develop a storyline of what happened to be fed to the American people and to receive their acquiescence. Victims' family members ... have said that only a fourth of their well researched questions were answered."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQNzvb7r2f0
Louis Freeh – Director of FBI, 1993-2001. Former U.S. District Court Judge for Southern District of New York, appointed by President George H.W. Bush. Former Deputy United States Attorney in New York. Former FBI agent. Former officer in United States Army.
Wall Street Journal 11/17/05: "Even the most junior investigator would immediately know that the name and photo ID of [lead 9/11 hijacker Mohammed] Atta in 2000 is precisely the kind of tactical intelligence the FBI has many times employed to prevent attacks and arrest terrorists. Yet the 9/11 Commission inexplicably concluded that it 'was not historically significant.' This astounding conclusion—in combination with the failure to investigate Able Danger and incorporate it into its findings—raises serious challenges to the commission's credibility and, if the facts prove out, might just render the commission historically insignificant itself. No wonder the 9/11 families were outraged by these revelations and called for a 'new' commission."
http://www.wanttoknow.info/911/9-11_...eh_able_danger
Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions. PhD in Aeronautics, Nuclear Engineering.
A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story ... of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash. It's impossible. … There's a second group of facts having to do with the cover up. Taken together these things prove that high levels of our government don't want us to know what happened. Who gained from 9/11? Who covered up crucial information? And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place? I think the case is pretty clear that it's highly placed individuals in the administration
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...65571556128674
Raymond L. McGovern – Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA. Responsible for President's Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.
I think at simplest terms, there's a cover-up. The 9/11 report is a joke. The question is: What's being covered up? Is it gross malfeasance, gross negligence?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwu0bNaUcOU
Francesco Cossiga – President of Italy, 1985-1992. Also served as Former Prime Minister, Undersecretary for Defense, and President of the Italian Senate.
all of the democratic areas of America and of Europe, with the Italian center-left in the forefront, now know full well that the disastrous attack was planned and executed by the American CIA and Mossad ... to falsely incriminate Arabic countries and to persuade the Western Powers to intervene in Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://www.corriere.it/politica/07_novembre...
Paul Craig Roberts, PhD – Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury under Ronald Reagan. "Father of Reaganomics." Former Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal. Currently Chairman of the Institute for Political Economy and Research Fellow at theIndependent Institute.
"We know that it is strictly impossible for any building, much less steel columned buildings, to 'pancake' at free fall speed. Therefore, it is a non-controversial fact that the official explanation of the collapse of the WTC buildings is false."
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle14566.htm
"There are not many editors eager for writers to explore the glaring defects of the 9/11 Commission Report. One would think that if the report could stand analysis, there would not be a taboo against calling attention to the inadequacy of its explanations."http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts02062006....
Michael Meacher – Former Under Secretary for Industry, Under Secretary for Health and Social Security, Minister of Environment, and Member of the House of Commons (UK).
Regarding the 9/11 Commission Report: "It was a 580-page avoidance of any serious explanation. The official investigative report says the US has never been able to find the sources of financing for 9/11. And then they say, 'That after all is a matter of no great importance.' I find that astonishing. It is a matter of absolutely central importance. It seems to me extraordinary that the United States with its stupendous military capabilities and the most technologically advanced country in the world completely and totally failed to follow up on these leads."
Melvin A. Goodman – Senior Analyst, Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974-1976. Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst, Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1976 - 1986. Professor of International Security, National War College 1986-2004. Currently Senior Fellow, Center for International Policy and Adjunct Professor of International Relations, Johns Hopkins University. Author or co-author of five books on international relations.
Congressional testimony: "I want to talk about the [9/11] Commission itself, about the flawed process of the Commission and finally about the conflict of interest within the Commission that is extremely important to understand the failure of the Commission."
Roy H. Andes, MA, JD – Former Assistant Attorney General, State of Montana.
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth petition:
"As an attorney who is meticulously attentive to issues of evidence and proof, and one very-little inclined to conspiracy theories, I was profoundly skeptical when a friend asked me to view Richard Gage's "Blueprint for Truth" with him. Over the course of that two-hour viewing, however, I became convinced that there is substance to Mr. Gage's conclusions, and that they deserve serious attention from appropriate authorities. That this may have happened, causes me grave concern for our country. Under the circumstances, I am not sure to what authorities we can entrust this matter and its attendant consequences."
Terrell E. Arnold, MA – Former Deputy Director, Office of Counter-Terrorism and Emergency Planning, U.S. State Department. Former Chairman, Department of International Studies, National War College. U.S. Navy veteran.
Essay: It is Vital to Move Beyond 911, 7/3/07:
"More than five years after the fact, Washington leadership keeps the American people fixated on the events of 9/11. They have brought us no closer than we were on September 12, 2001 to resolving how it was executed and by what enemy. They tell us repeatedly that it was the work of al Qaida, but they have yet to show us the proofs. They told us the official version of what happened that day, but their story is laced with contradictions, and the facts visible on the ground at the time belie much of the official account. Every American must look carefully at the pattern of decay that began with 9/11.
"As an alleged post 9/11 defense, the War on Terrorism is a gigantic fraud. ... We cannot let a single criminal act, the facts and perpetrators of which are still obscure, destroy our society. With all respect due to those who lost family and friends in the attacks of 9/11, there is no evident search for justice, truth or our future safety in the US government actions outlined in this paper. Instead we are watching the most brutal power games of our times that benefit the few at the expense of the rest of us."
There are many more... a couple of thousand more in fact (I can link you to them if you like?)
See,... a comprehensively substantiated and logically consistent argument with no ad hominem necessary!
, if the Earth is flat. 
