Thick haze over Melbourne

[pgc hunter]

Originally Posted by stephenb

I have no problem with what the DSE are doing this week and weekend. Most of them are also firefighters who work alongside the CFA vols, so to disparage them by calling them "idiots", "turdburglers", "defartment of suckholes and embers" and other offensive names simply because you want a clear night for your simple hobby shows your maturity and understanding of the greater picture of what the DSE achieve with their planned burn offs. I'll also remind you that two DSE members lost their lives evenly fighting fires which most of Melbourne wouldn't have been aware or even cared about.

DSE can burn off as much as they see fit, in my opinion.

Yeah, well they also caused major bushfires by burning off on hot windy days... April 2005 Wilsons Prom comes to mind and there were numerous other bushfires caused by burnoffs here and elsewhere because of their own unspeakable idiocy of doing this on sunny hot windy days. It appears that they pick the warmest, sunniest (and sometimes windiest) days to burn off. They are stupid for initiating burns in unsuitable conditions.

I really don't care, you can put whatever spin you want on it, but with the limited clear weather in Melbourne, every opportunity counts and I will not be okay with it regardless of what you think. We are heading into our usual overcast winter, autumn brings some great weather, the last for months and it is all ruined by these burnoffs. No I am not okay with it, I hate it and I am sick to death of clear weather being ruined by these burnoffs.

I'm guessing you don't partake in our hobby, if that is the case, then you are on your own in your opinions. The rest of us Melburnians are sick to death of everything ruining our observing opportunities as they are so far and few inbetween, which is a fatal consequence of our horrid climate and the last thing we need is these idiots lighting up forests ruining what few good chances we get at astronomy.

[andyc (Andy)]

Just came in from a good observing sessions on a really pretty nice clear night in Melbourne. Not the most transparent I've ever seen, but frankly some people here seem unable to accept anything other than 100% perfect dark still skies. There was some very pleasant observing to be had. If all you can do is complain about the excellent astronomy conditions here, maybe best to move to a desert?

And I'm with stephenb on the DSE's work. Reducing fire fuel loads is really rather important in Victoria, unless you fancy the next Black Saturday being even worse than the last one. More power to them, they mostly do a very good job. "Limited clear weather in Melbourne"?? Where have you been all summer?! Given the very large number of clear nights over the whole summer here, I'll happily sacrifice a bit of transparency on the odd night (and it was only a bit tonight), for a reduced overall fire risk.

Go on. Partake in our great hobby. It's nice and clear outside!

[Nikolas (Nik)]

seeing wasn't the best but got some fair shots of saturn

[Ric]

Hi Paula

In general a clear day means a stable atmosphere an weather conditions. When you have a cloudy day as in big white fluffy clouds this indicates unstable air in the upper atmosphere.

It is the instability which can change the nature of the fire turning it from a quiet low intensity burn into the opposite with embers being dropped many kilometres from the actual fire.

It turns out that Autumn is the best time of year for a lot of things.

Hi Sab,

As a firefighter and an amateur astronomer I see no point in going off the deep end. Believe me all of us would rather be at home than doing a hazard reduction, but it is something we do to protect our community.

Cheers

[Gruffalo]

The work of reducing fires is really far more important than our hobby of astronomy. Backburning does work - look at the states that have been doing it for decades like Queensland, where there are few fatal bushfires compared to non-backburning states (or former non-backburning states).

Keep up the good work Ric.

[Forgey (Paula)]

I have no problem with DSE burning off, I have a cousin who is a volunteer fire fighter who fought the fires in bright/harriteville area the past couple of months and he also works for parks Victoria in the off season clearing debris to prevent bushfires. So I have great respect for what they do.

[pgc hunter]

Originally Posted by andyc

Just came in from a good observing sessions on a really pretty nice clear night in Melbourne. Not the most transparent I've ever seen, but frankly some people here seem unable to accept anything other than 100% perfect dark still skies.

Yeah and what's wrong with wanting perfectly clear skies for my DSO observing? I'm not going to bother hauling my heavy rig out and making multiple trips just to look at smoke haze.

There was some very pleasant observing to be had. If all you can do is complain about the excellent astronomy conditions here, maybe best to move to a desert?

Now that's an oxymoron if there ever was one. Seeing as astronomy conditions are allegedly so "excellent" in Melbourne (LOL ) why would you suggest I move to the desert?

And let me tell you something, conditions for astronomy are *far* from excellent in Melbourne. A couple of outlier sunny months don't make it excellent. I can't fathom how anybody in their right mind would consider this area to be excellent for astro.

And I'm with stephenb on the DSE's work. Reducing fire fuel loads is really rather important in Victoria, unless you fancy the next Black Saturday being even worse than the last one.More power to them, they mostly do a very good job. "Limited clear weather in Melbourne"?? Where have you been all summer?!

Where have you been for most of the year since Melbourne was settled?! Firstly, this summer was sunnier than average, but even then it is a crapshot getting a clear Friday or Saturday night. Secondly, Melbourne is absurdly cloudy for most of the year (annual average sky cover is 5.2 oktas) with a max of 5.7 oktas in winter (in other words nearly 3/4 sky cover). Finding a suitable clear night becomes difficult indeed, and by suitable I mean weekends, public holidays etc.

Given the very large number of clear nights over the whole summer here, I'll happily sacrifice a bit of transparency on the odd night (and it was only a bit tonight), for a reduced overall fire risk.

This was one of the warmest and sunniest summers. Most other summers have been cloudier.

Go on. Partake in our great hobby. It's nice and clear outside!

I will, I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

[Gruffalo]

Lots of obtuse antagonism here. Tough crowd I guess

[andyc (Andy)]

Sab, reading your posts, people might get the impression Melbourne was a bad place to do astronomy. I can only conclude you've never lived in a truly difficult place to do astronomy if you think this. It's a big city and you'll have haze and LP if you want to live with big city benefits. It has a decent number of clear nights. There's no frost, and relatively little dew. You have a decent chance of clear skies throughout the year (try QLD in the austral summer, or above 50 deg N in June). IMHO, it sounds like your standards for clear skies appear much too high to allow you to actually enjoy the pleasures of the great many clear nights on offer.

Last night I had a great evening, observing a nice range of clusters, nebulae and planetaries (for example I had my first visual from Melbourne of the Pencil neb last night), some galaxies in Antlia, and a respectable view of Saturn. Not perfect conditions by a fair margin, but if I waited for them, I might get no observing done!

I'm sure you'd be happier if you worked with what you have instead of grumbling about it? Or if you really can't stand Melbourne conditions, can you do something about it? Perhaps I don't understand, because conditions here are good - better than anywhere else I have lived. And it is certainly not the fault of the DSE/CFA!

But peace, and clear skies to you - may they be cloudless, transparent, steady and haze-free at New Moon .

[04Stefan07 (Stefan)]

Last night was pretty good. I didn't get the chance to go out but the night was nice and clear.

[Nikolas (Nik)]

Last night was not that good in Glen iris, too hazy from the burnoffs, been like that both clear and still nights which is quite a disappointment but meh

[pw (Peter)]

Driving in to the city this afternoon on the Eastern Fwy it looked like the photos we see of China, heavy haze blanketing the city along with low, dark clouds.