The world is more dangerous now than ever before. Just a couple of examples:
- There are more refugees in the world now than at any other time since WWII.
Wouldn't that make WWII a worse time in history then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by el_draco
- At any at point in time a number of nations can sterilise this planet with nuclear weapons.
True. It's been that way since the 50's. So when you say 'now', you mean anytime in the last 65 years is worse than ever? But then, you could argue it's precisely *because of mutually assured destruction that the world has had an enduring peace among superpowers. No-one wants a 'hot war' because it's unwinnable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by el_draco
- The devastation of the global environment is a slow moving train wreck occurring despite the clear evidence given to world governments. Try standing up to governments on any of those issues and they have the "data" to prove it.
True, I agree that climate change is a huge issue that could very well lead to famine and war. It hasn't yet, but the danger is very real.
Quote:
Originally Posted by el_draco
Drugs have been an issue for millennia. You can read about the opium wars as an example. Despite all the information that now exists about both new, and old, drugs and a supposed "war on drugs", both legal and illicit drug use has escalated around the world.
You're right in that drug addiction has increased this year (for the first time in 6 years). From 27 milion to 29 million people. So what's that? 7 percent?
Quote:
Originally Posted by el_draco
Even when given the data, they refuse to act on it out of vested self interest... as with most issues.
And yet we still vote for them. There is nothing stopping us from voting for someone else. I wish more of us did. A grass roots party that wasnt dependent upon support from business or unions would be a good thing, IMO
Quote:
Originally Posted by el_draco
In a number of Australian states, right now, if you protest peacefully about corporate greed and environmental devastation, you can be imprisoned for your beliefs.
Free speech has always had limitations. I can't think of a time when encouraging people to attack the state (or instruments of the state) hasn't had consequences. Protest is about showing support for a cause. With large numbers of people a little disruption is inevitable, but most protests these days seem to aim solely for disruption as an outcome, which is different. People have a right to speak their minds, just as everyone else has a right to go about their business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by el_draco
The "good old days" were certainly tougher in many respects but you didn't face a national police state run by people who knew everything about you.
I can't think of anything on this census that they don't already know, or couldn't find out if they wanted to. We live in a post-privacy era. Even the highest security information gets hacked all the time. These are the battle fronts of the new cold war, because it's about economic advantage, not political ideals. Intellectual property theft is the real game at the moment, which is why every Government is hacking every other government to the extent that it can.
I resent having to fill out forms, when if they wanted money, you bet they'd know who I was and where I live. I just wish it was all centralised. They have all the information anyway.
I resent having to fill out forms, when if they wanted money, you bet they'd know who I was and where I live. I just wish it was all centralised. They have all the information anyway.
-Markus
They've got all they need already. It's just a classroom roll call. They just want to know if you're still here or moved elsewhere.
Wouldn't that make WWII a worse time in history then?
You can consider "recent history" as living memory say 75 to 100 years. That period also coincides with the mass collection of personal data by the previously mentioned states. In that period, there has no doubt been more devastation than in any other period in human history
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonius
True, I agree that climate change is a huge issue that could very well lead to famine and war. It hasn't yet, but the danger is very real.
It already is, despite what denialists bleat... and you aint seen nothin yet!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonius
And yet we still vote for them. There is nothing stopping us from voting for someone else. I wish more of us did. A grass roots party that wasnt dependent upon support from business or unions would be a good thing, IMO
The political game is a monopoly of two at the moment. Grass roots parties don't stand a chance. You listen to the way anyone who tries to stand up for the most fundamental issue, (a livable planet), is treated by the "parties", media and big business and you'll see why democracy is effectively dead. Stupid people should have no right to vote but governments can't handle the idea of a thinking populace. After all, They might be held accountable...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonius
Protest is about showing support for a cause. With large numbers of people a little disruption is inevitable, but most protests these days seem to aim solely for disruption as an outcome, which is different. People have a right to speak their minds, just as everyone else has a right to go about their business.
And when going about your business poses a threat to the habitability of the planet, protesting gets you arrested and imprisoned, despite showing support for probably the ultimate cause...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonius
I can't think of anything on this census that they don't already know, or couldn't find out if they wanted to. We live in a post-privacy era.
The "post privacy era" has come about because people dont stand up a scream blue bloody murder en-mass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonius
I resent having to fill out forms, when if they wanted money, you bet they'd know who I was and where I live. I just wish it was all centralised. They have all the information anyway.
-Markus
Then why do it??? The consensus among experts is that the ABS has no right, legal, moral or ethical, to do what they are doing... So why are you giving them what they want?
Originally Posted by Stonius
True, I agree that climate change is a huge issue that could very well lead to famine and war. It hasn't yet, but the danger is very real.
Quote:
It already is, despite what denialists bleat... and you aint seen nothin yet!
True enough...
Our fate was sealed back in the mid seventies with the subversion of the Brenton Woods agreement and the inception of the petrodollar. The US has basically operated a (US dollar) printing press with impunity ever since. If the world weans itself off Oil, the chickens come home to roost and the state of the US economy will be exposed for what it is, parasitical and completely insolvent. The only survival tactic open to the US is to sabotage action on climate change and destabilise any regime that tries to trade oil with legitimate currency.. ie) Russia, Syria, Iran, China, Venezuala, etc...
So, our options are:
1) Sabotage meaningful action on climate change and buy yourself another few years in economic fairyland. (lock that one in Mr Newman)
2) Global warfare to ensure option 1 (Phone a friend)
3) Global economic collapse. (a mathematical certainty)
4) Skynet. (might actually have more empathy and interest in the survival of the human race than the incumbent muppets)
5) The elves will fix it. (more likely than Trump or Hillary being sensible - don't hold your breath)
6) Buy a new plasma screen so you can watch high definition sport in 3D on Foxtel... and maybe the monster under the bed will get bored and go away.
Last edited by clive milne; 08-08-2016 at 03:29 PM.
Nick Xenophon refuses to supply name information on Census
Now you have a senator to defend your right to tell the ABS to shove it!
Quote:
"The senator feared census data could be commercialised and its storage of names for four years, rather than the usual 18 months, risked transforming the survey from a “snapshot” into “a mobile CCTV that follows every Australian”.“The government should be requesting our consent, rather than requiring our names through coercion,” he said, describing privacy as an “inherent human right,” he said.
“The ABS with the support of the Australian government is about to trash that human right and the way they’ve done so has been completely undignified and disrespectful to all Australians.”
The front page of the daily telegraph said something along the lines ABS had made $40 mill selling data and the names will help launch a new product.
That was from memory plus I was reading over a shoulder so read the paper cause I may have it wrong.
However if true that must be of concern.
Maybe with the Facebook mentality folk do not have privacy concerns these days.
Anyways I will do what they want because I trust them.
Alex
The front page of the daily telegraph said something along the lines ABS had made $40 mill selling data and the names will help launch a new product.
That was from memory plus I was reading over a shoulder so read the paper cause I may have it wrong.
However if true that must be of concern.
Maybe with the Facebook mentality folk do not have privacy concerns these days.
Anyways I will do what they want because I trust them.
Alex
Yep, Alex you are right:
"The ABS insists it will not hand over private census data to other government agencies or businesses.
But confidential internal documents reveal the ABS, which earned $41 million last year selling data, wants to link names and addresses to census data to make “new products’’."
So much for statistics.... I call that commercialisation of YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION!
I really cant understand all the stress about your name on a government form, as been said, they already have all your information anyway.
Maybe I'm just not with it, as the only social media I participate in is here on IIS, and have a dinosaur of a phone which is just a phone, which I lose many time because I hardly use it, and I like it that way, and I was given a paper form so I'm safe
"The ABS insists it will not hand over private census data to other government agencies or businesses.
But confidential internal documents reveal the ABS, which earned $41 million last year selling data, wants to link names and addresses to census data to make “new products’’."
So much for statistics.... I call that commercialisation of YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION!
Then tweak some of the information so it's just slightly wrong, so that if anyone contacts you using that information you have a lawsuit you can throw at them :-)
Then tweak some of the information so it's just slightly wrong, so that if anyone contacts you using that information you have a lawsuit you can throw at them :-)
Nope... I'm gonna shirt front the bastidous! Xenophon says it'll need a test case... Here I am F......ellows...
All we need to know now is who paid $40 mill for the data?
And who is prepared to purchase the "new product".
Personally I have nothing to hide, not into politics have no influence so I am not worried.
Their rollover the oposition is not nice and smacks of elitism but hey some folk think they know best...let them I say.
And who is prepared to purchase the "new product".
Anyone who is into data mining or identity theft, but purchasing the data is the least of the problems.
My biggest concern is in the last 5 years, the hacking abilities have far outstripped the systems of the "we promise its secure" brigade.
( The hackers are "agile" so our current PM probably likes em )
Also, even tho its been tried, the govt still refuses to force companies who have been hacked to disclose the size and effects of it.
We still dont know how bad it really is. ( We arent allowed to know )
I am not on farcebook or twatter, i dont use loyalty cards and i dont have a credit card. I am sure a lot of data about me exists, but most of it would be innocuous.
If someone hacks the census data, they will have a list of absolutely everyone, and hence can reverse engineer and go after the ones they dont currently have.
All we need to know now is who paid $40 mill for the data?
And who is prepared to purchase the "new product".
Big business. Period. Data is money. You can program drones to buy crap if you pound it into their heads that they need it. Bet your junk mail is now targeted and increases in volume massively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xelasnave
Personally I have nothing to hide, not into politics have no influence so I am not worried.
Neither do I but...That's not the point is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xelasnave
Their rollover the oposition is not nice and smacks of elitism but hey some folk think they know best...let them I say.
The words I would use are "abuse" and "coercion". Your civil rights brushed away without a thought.
Interesting to hear on the 6pm news tonight that the Census system has been "experiencing problems" this afternoon.
Wonder what it will be like after tea :-)
That said, i ordered a paper form, but still no show.
Anyone else request paper forms, and if so, how long did it take from request to delivery???? This is a debacle.
Interesting to hear on the 6pm news tonight that the Census system has been "experiencing problems" this afternoon.
Wonder what it will be like after tea :-)
That said, i ordered a paper form, but still no show.
Anyone else request paper forms, and if so, how long did it take from request to delivery???? This is a debacle.
Andrew
Tried to complete online this morning. Apparently my browser is not up to scratch, so I cannot complete. I then called and requested a paper form. No idea when it will arrive.
The question I ask is why do they not ensure that all browsers are compatible with their site? Seems I can do all other things I want on the net, but not the census.
Was just reading some stuff on Reddit.
Some users with VPNs with non Oz sources were reporting they suspected they were being blocked.
I reckon the ABS have probably put in place a whole range of filters on who can log in to prevent a DDOS attack from overseas locations.
Dont know enough about how it all works to know if its true or not, but i suspect its probably the case.
Just more fun in the new digital world.
I'm safe 
Xenophon says it'll need a test case... Here I am F......ellows... 
