I would say in my defence that I was trying to get across to bigjoe that I found his posts difficult to read, and therefore anything he may have been trying to get across was, perhaps, lost in translation. I was not trying to be pedantic, but the irony of the spelling error in the reason stated for editing the post, along with the grammatical errors that remained in the post made me wonder what bigjoe had actually done. I presume the post before editing was unintelligible, as afterwards it was barely so.
Anyway, what's wrong with learning to use tools correctly? I'm sure that if you get a fancy new piece of astronomical equipment, you don't just bung it together in a haphazard fashion. I bet you will learn how to use it correctly. The English language is just another tool, this one helping you communicate your thoughts to others. If you learn to use it correctly then you'll be misunderstood less, surely that's a good thing.
I would say in my defence that I was trying to get across to bigjoe that I found his posts difficult to read, and therefore anything he may have been trying to get across was, perhaps, lost in translation. I was not trying to be pedantic, but the irony of the spelling error in the reason stated for editing the post, along with the grammatical errors that remained in the post made me wonder what bigjoe had actually done. I presume the post before editing was unintelligible, as afterwards it was barely so.
Anyway, what's wrong with learning to use tools correctly? I'm sure that if you get a fancy new piece of astronomical equipment, you don't just bung it together in a haphazard fashion. I bet you will learn how to use it correctly. The English language is just another tool, this one helping you communicate your thoughts to others. If you learn to use it correctly then you'll be misunderstood less, surely that's a good thing.
Cheers
Stuart
Whilst I not suggesting the bigjoe suffers any literacy issues, perhaps a little tolerance towards others is in order (if you cared to read my previous post in this thread?) and then taking the moral high ground when you do not know the personal circumstances of others, their level of education, literacy skills, cultural background etc., will not feel as important.
To many the English language is not just "another tool" to learn "correctly" like some piece of telescope equipment, as you so eloquently put. It can seem like an insurmountable hurdle that holds many back. And often when people like you put them out in such a public way, that can have a negative effect on the individual. Why not send them a polite PM?
There are far worse heinous crimes in this world that worrying about someone's grammar in a pokey little hobby forum.
This being an Internet forum maybe "Postel's Law", as formulated in RFC 760 ("Internet Protocol"), should be applied to the reading and writing of forum posts:
Quote:
In general, an implementation [that means you, dear reader – S.] should be conservative
in its sending behavior, and liberal in its receiving behavior. That
is, it should be careful to send well-formed datagrams, but should
accept any datagram that it can interpret (e.g., not object to
technical errors where the meaning is still clear).
I know this may come as a surprise to some, but grammar and spelling errors cause some readers' attentions to stop at the point of error, and cause wandering attention to the points made thereafter.
If the reader is a poor speller or commonly makes grammar errors, this same concentration of attention will not occur in reverse. Posts without obvious errors don't cause the same "sticking" at the error to occur.
If you are used to editing your own posts, and catching those errors before the posting takes place, you also wonder why others don't do the same.
The most egregious errors are the all-too-common "there/their/they're" error, the "your/you're" error, the "its/it's" error, and the "me/myself/I" error.
Spelling errors, such as aperature for aperture, or "adverted vision" for "averted vision" can be forgiven. Words that aren't common in everyday speech can be difficult to remember (Is pusillanimous spelled with one "l" or two?). I wouldn't think of correcting the spelling unless the word is misspelled several times in the same paragraph, and even then, usually by posting a reply with the word correctly spelled.
A little forgiveness can go a long way. After all, many people are immigrants whose [not who's] native languages were not English.
A little forgiveness can go a long way. After all, many people are immigrants whose [not who's] native languages were not English.
Actually in my experience more 'locals' have problems with grammar than people (scholars) whose mother tongue is not English and learned it at a later stage in life. Mine is functional at best but I try to keep the grammar under wrap. It can be an issue at times when I think in French then translate grammatical structures back into English then things get shuffled a little. The only irritating thing which is really very easy to fix is basic capitalisation, punctuation and what I call the basics: than, then, there, they're, their, were, where, we're, your, you're, does, dose. That's laziness IMHO (<- like this one ). I do a lot of spelling mistakes as typos but if I'm not sure of a new word I type or I read in a post I'll do a 'what is <word>' in Google and check it quickly before posting.
Whilst I not suggesting the bigjoe suffers any literacy issues, perhaps a little tolerance towards others is in order (if you cared to read my previous post in this thread?) and then taking the moral high ground when you do not know the personal circumstances of others, their level of education, literacy skills, cultural background etc., will not feel as important.
To many the English language is not just "another tool" to learn "correctly" like some piece of telescope equipment, as you so eloquently put. It can seem like an insurmountable hurdle that holds many back. And often when people like you put them out in such a public way, that can have a negative effect on the individual. Why not send them a polite PM?
There are far worse heinous crimes in this world that worrying about someone's grammar in a pokey little hobby forum.
To be honest, if you were going to be a spelling and grammar Nazi on IIS, then it would be a full time job.
The OP hasn't claimed some sort of difficulty with the language (like an illness or English being a second language), he (assuming Joe is, in fact, a man) seems to have OK computing skills as he has discovered how to use bold and red lettering. He has also seen fit to make snide remarks about me in another thread. Merely because he got something (terribly) wrong and either doesn't like it being pointed out or his ego can't take criticism. I say again, that the only reason for my post was the fact that the post had been edited for grammatical errors, but still contained many. I then gave some pointers for making post more legible.
To be honest, if you were going to be a spelling and grammar Nazi on IIS, then it would be a full time job.
The OP hasn't claimed some sort of difficulty with the language (like an illness or English being a second language), he (assuming Joe is, in fact, a man) seems to have OK computing skills as he has discovered how to use bold and red lettering. He has also seen fit to make snide remarks about me in another thread. Merely because he got something (terribly) wrong and either doesn't like it being pointed out or his ego can't take criticism. I say again, that the only reason for my post was the fact that the post had been edited for grammatical errors, but still contained many. I then gave some pointers for making post more legible.
Cheers
Stuart
Anybody who can do astro imaging and retain any sanity has the brain capacity and patience to correctly spell.
Seems to me that this thread has degenerated to a slanging match and will get closed
Before this happens it is not the grammar that is the problem it is the connotation of the spelling that is the problem
grammer: short for programmer
Gramma: a type of pumpkin
grammar: how we present our language
gra'mma: Gramp's offsider who is responsible for you all being here
I can be a bit of a grammar nazi but I try and keep a firm lid on it because I know it can irritate people.
Butt it reelly irritates mee wen peeple type a 20000 werd sentense with know punktewayshun and multypool speling erors and thay go on and on and on and on and the paragraf disolvs intwo a senceless mudle of noncense that yoo cant desifer and it just maykes me shayke mai hed in exaspurayshun at theyre lak of respekt four the engerlish langwage.
To be honest, if you were going to be a spelling and grammar Nazi on IIS, then it would be a full time job.
The OP hasn't claimed some sort of difficulty with the language (like an illness or English being a second language), he (assuming Joe is, in fact, a man) seems to have OK computing skills as he has discovered how to use bold and red lettering. He has also seen fit to make snide remarks about me in another thread. Merely because he got something (terribly) wrong and either doesn't like it being pointed out or his ego can't take criticism. I say again, that the only reason for my post was the fact that the post had been edited for grammatical errors, but still contained many. I then gave some pointers for making post more legible.
Cheers
Stuart
All your points are valid and I take them on board, but as I say again, if someone has a problem with grammar, spelling etc. why not send a PM and gently remind them? There may be an underlying issue.
It is the norm here in IIS to bring it to their attention very publicly and often start a new thread about Grammar, then another thread, then another.... It's a common theme.
Like most who post here, the is a lot of assumptions about individuals that you have never met (by 'you' I'm referring generally, not specifically yourself)
Wye due thees threds degenerete sew kwikly intwo personul clashhes?
Letz awl joust trie two gedalong wid itch udder!
Two meny threds r clozed dew to personnel conflictz.
Sumtimes I whish they're waz know "General Chat" sexion at awl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Becstar
Butt it reelly irritates mee wen peeple type a 20000 werd sentense with know punktewayshun and multypool speling erors and thay go on and on and on and on and the paragraf disolvs intwo a senceless mudle of noncense that yoo cant desifer and it just maykes me shayke mai hed in exaspurayshun at theyre lak of respekt four the engerlish langwage.
Yoo pear betta ceep it twogetter kause I kant strop larfing
Flash....
Last edited by FlashDrive; 23-07-2013 at 04:26 PM.
). I do a lot of spelling mistakes as typos but if I'm not sure of a new word I type or I read in a post I'll do a 'what is <word>' in Google and check it quickly before posting.
