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  #1  
Old 26-04-2013, 12:23 PM
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Benno18 (Ben)
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High altitude ballooning

Hi guys
Myself and my family have started a little project to raise awareness for epilepsy and kids cancer, by launching two teddy bears in to near space, under a helium filled balloon.

I am after a little advice or direction from people who have done this or towards websites or people to help with my project, especially australian ones, as many of the 'googled' websites are American and from the UK. Also if I need to register with CASA. From what I can find I don't because my 'payload' is small.

Any advice would be much appreciated
Cheers
Benno
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  #2  
Old 19-06-2013, 04:42 PM
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Benno18 (Ben)
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I know a few of you have had a look at this thread. We have set up a donation page to help with the kids cancer project.

https://give.everydayhero.com/au/space-bears-project

All the money donated through the page goes to the charity, not to me or buying of equipment. Hoping to launch around late October, depending on money and weather.

Cheers
Benno
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  #3  
Old 19-06-2013, 05:20 PM
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pluto (Hugh)
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Great project for a great cause!

I can't really help much but I read up on this a few years ago and I believe you don't need permission from CASA if the payload is under 200g. My memory is not great though so it could have been 200g for the payload including the balloon and rigging etc. so you should definitely check. Also even if you don't need permission it would definitely be a good idea to inform CASA and perhaps get recommendations for safe launch sites.

Good luck
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  #4  
Old 19-06-2013, 10:59 PM
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OzEclipse (Joe Cali)
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altitude sickness

Hi Benno,

I was part of a team that sent a balloon up to 37km last year with a HD video camera to film last November's total solar eclipse.

You can read about it here :-
http://joe-cali.com/eclipses/PAST/TSE2012/index_p3.html

You almost certainly will need CASA's permission or at least talk to them and have them tell you that you don't need permission.

Last year, someone in Brisbane released a light balloon using two mobile phones one to transmit position and one to track it. He stupidly put the transmitter in his car and the tracker receiver in the balloon and hence immediately. A CASA safety officer told me they had to divert air traffic around a 500km x 900km corridor stretching from Ipswich to Charleville for about three weeks.

You don't need permission to launch individual unconnected party type (toy store) balloons unless the total number exceeds something like 200. However as soon as you go to payloads, things get much more difficult. The relevant regulation is CASR101 that covers unmanned rockets and aircraft. I have pasted part of it below but you need to download the whole thing.

http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dl...D::pc=PC_91039

Pluto's info is correct in concept but inaccurate as he suggested it might be. As you can see from the info below there is no class of balloon being "under 200g."

The classes are
Small balloon <50g
and
Light Balloon 50g - 2kg.

The definitions specifiy the weight is just payload however CASA take the expanded diameter of the balloon into account.

Extract from CASR 101
101.145 Definitions for Subpart - free balloons
(1) For this Subpart:
free balloon means an unmanned balloon that is not
tethered.
(2) There are 4 kinds of free balloon: small balloon, light
balloon, medium balloon and heavy balloon.
(3) In this Subpart:
small balloon means a free balloon that can carry no
more than 50 grams of payload.
(4) In this Subpart:
light balloon means a free balloon that:
(a) is no more than 2 metres in diameter at any time
during its flight; and
(b) can carry no more than 4 kilograms of payload.

(5) In this Subpart:
medium balloon means a free balloon that:
(a) may be more than 2 metres in diameter at some
time in its flight; and
(b) is capable of carrying more than 4 kilograms, but
no more than 6 kilograms, of payload.


However the "light balloon" classification is sort of non-existant.

We calculated that even if you use the lightest 200g latex balloon with a 50g payload and 0.25 cu m of Helium, it will be 0.8m diameter at launch. However, it will expand to greater than the 2m limit for light balloons at altitude thus pushing it into the medium class.

I spent somewhere between 40 - 60 hrs on CASA and Air Services Australia compliance. They were not obstructive but they were tough and it wasn't easy to meet their requirements. At one stage they issued me with a letter stating that they were prepared to consider our balloon a light balloon and as such we didn't need a clearance to launch. Three days later, someone higher up than the safety officer I dealt with decided to revoke the classification and our balloon was reclassified as a medium balloon by virtue of the expansion.

In the end I, in my role as the so-called launch coordinator, had to sign a legal contract that held me personally responsible if we lost the tracking on the balloon and aircraft had to be diverted. This was only sent to me hours before launch, no time to arrange insurance. I took a risk but I signed it because -

a) I had great confidence in the preparation and testing that had gone into the system;

b) The team had put far too much time into it to back down at the final hurdle.

If it had gone really wrong I could have lost my house...everything.

We had an advanced ARPS microbeacon tracking system. Our team had an experienced aerospace engineer with dozens of high altitude scientific launches for NASA, ESA and ROSA behind him and several radio tracking specialists who designed an extremely robust tracking system. Our radio specialists deployed extra digipeaters around Cape York to ensure that the radio signal could not be lost no matter how far it drifted. If you launch in a more populated area, this may not be necessary but you'll have more issues with the balloon being in RPT (regular passenger traffic) airspace.

Good luck with your project, I think it is a very worthwhile endeavor. I would encourage you to consider whether there is an easier way to get publicity for your project. Our flight to shoot an eclipse was a first and yet it didn't get us that much publicity. Sending toys, smart phones up to the stratosphere has been done before. You'll still have to put in the hard yards to get media coverage. You'll expend a great deal of energy and money doing the balloon launch that could probably be better invested in your cause.

best wishes

Joe Cali
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  #5  
Old 20-06-2013, 10:51 PM
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Benno18 (Ben)
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Hi joe and Hugh
Thanks for your help.
Firstly Joe can I congratulate you and your team on a mission well done!!!! the video looks absolutely amazing!!!!! I can not believe that I had not seen or heard of your mission.

The equipment I have been looking at using is through http://highaltitudescience.com/
Have asked them if anyone down under had used their equipment and they said no. But looking around the tracker they offer is available in Oz, and the flight computer they offer would be something good to have.

Thanks for your advice on the CASA regs. Was having a hard time deciphering through that. But good to know I am on the right track.

what cameras did you use??
What size balloon was used to get to that height??

Thanks heaps
Benno
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  #6  
Old 21-06-2013, 08:27 AM
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OzEclipse (Joe Cali)
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Benno


Quote:
Firstly Joe can I congratulate you and your team on a mission well done!!!! the video looks absolutely amazing!!!!! I can not believe that I had not seen or heard of your mission.


Precisely why I suggested you have a good hard think about whether you want to put so much effort into this project. We didn't get much media coverage nor did we try to play the media because we were working in very remote areas - sat phones only and everyone involved was working hard towards the launch. In such a remote area, we couldn't work with the news cycle anyway.

We were not concerned with coverage in the fickle media cycle or using the social media wave which is very short lived and for us, of little consequence. For your project, this coverage is probably far more important. Catalin and I were interested in longer term aspects and with people with a longer attention span - amateur astronomers and eclipse enthusiasts. The details on my web site are deliberately scant because we are entering the final stages of editing of a large feature article that will be published in the November issue of Sky and Telescope. November issue gets printed in 4 weeks time so we really are close.


You probably need to engage a skilled PR person and conduct your flight in an easily accessible location - but away from airports and flight paths otherwise CASA clearances become more difficult. Maybe get morning tv on board?

The camera belongs to Catalin. I can't remember the specific model but it's one of the small GoPro type HD cameras. The youtube video is lower res but the raw footage seen on a big screen tv is fantastic to watch.

It was a 1500g balloon with a 1500g payload. Original plan was to fill it to 2m diam at launch 4.2 cubic m of Helium.

Burst diameter at 35km is 9.45m
Ascent rate 5.51m/s
Time to burst 100 minutes.

In the end, the helium cylinder we bought wasn't full to spec and didn't have enough helium so we filled it less and removed some of the science pack to reduce weight.



Ascent rate is far less important to you. For us, we had extra constrains that we had to get the balloon up in a relatively short time. It was critical that we not have it burst before the eclipse nor drift out of the path of totality or out to sea. Not too fast, not too slow. Therefore the freeweight calculations were made on site when the balloon was full. The freeweight determines the ascent rate. You might want to make it slower to string out the event.



We used a MicroTrack from Byonics, 144,850 Mhz
configurable (+/- 0,5 Mhz), we also had a Bionics GPS module.
We tracked the device with the APRS system with assistance from Cairns amateur radio operators in the 144,80 or 144,85 band with recording data (in APRS).

We didn't need to use off the shelf trackers like the link you posted from High altitude science. We had people on the team who put the tracker together from smaller component pieces.

Joe
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  #7  
Old 21-06-2013, 10:15 AM
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pluto (Hugh)
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Hi Joe, I was blown away by your project at the time and even more so by the stunning results you, and the team, achieved. Fantastic effort!

Just a quick question, did you need an amateur radio license to transmit the APRS signal?
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  #8  
Old 21-06-2013, 09:18 PM
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OzEclipse (Joe Cali)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluto View Post
Hi Joe, I was blown away by your project at the time and even more so by the stunning results you, and the team, achieved. Fantastic effort!

Just a quick question, did you need an amateur radio license to transmit the APRS signal?
I don't know. We had three highly expert licensed radio operators involved so the question never came up. I would suggest that if anyone ever does this, that they approach licensed radio operators via a club and ask for expert assistance. If you lose track of the balloon, it causes all sorts of problems for air services Australia and in turn make things more difficult for those who come after you.

and thanks for the comments!

cheers

Joe
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