The Federal budget, it wasn't all bad

[marki]

I have 3 questions.

1. How will the NBN super fast information highway help us dig up minerals faster, do we just run a cable to the big dozer?

2. Is it a good idea to vote for a political party based on a single issue for example the NBN?

3. Where's my banjo ?

Mark

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by marki

Is it a good idea to vote for a political party based on a single issue for example the NBN?

Mark, that is an easy answer, so why bother asking the question?

[marki]

Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA

Mark, that is an easy answer, so why bother asking the question?

There was some other stuff under the sentence you quoted but it got deleted .

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by marki

There was some other stuff under the sentence you quoted but it got deleted .

Oh dear You saying naughty stuff

[TrevorW]

If you lot donated the equivalent monetary value of your wasted time and effort in posting here to my casue I'd have enough $$$ to fix MS.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

If you lot donated the equivalent monetary value of your wasted time and effort in posting here to my casue I'd have enough $$$ to fix MS.

What? Are you trying to guilt us into supporting your cause now If so, poor form Trevor Ask, by all means, but stop short at the guilt trip, please. Maybe that is not the way you meant it to come across, but that is the way it appeared to me, right or wrong. Most here would be aware of your other thread and if they wanted to support it, they would have done so.

Yes, your cause is worthy, there is no question about that, and on several occasions I have indeed supported it and still do. I still support a number of causes, like most people, unfortunately, there is only so much that people can support.

Another thing, it is only your opinion that this was a waste of time and effort, and on that basis, so is all other discourse then?

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

In case any of you remaining doubting Thomas types missed Sunrise yesterday...this is a short and easy to understand over view of why you should vote for the best version of the NBN!!

...or you can just use the carrier pigeon I guess..?

NBN explained simply

[Deeno]

Nice little story from the ABC ..what the...! You do flog commercial stations when its convenient

I thought the eight lane freeway would be a good idea. Shame the current government lacks the vision and guts to back schemes that would really enrich our lives for the future. Simple commodities like water, power,self sustaining food supply, transport, health.

[marki]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

If you lot donated the equivalent monetary value of your wasted time and effort in posting here to my casue I'd have enough $$$ to fix MS.

Not much quality in my posts of late Trevor so it usually doesn't take me too long, afraid you would only get a few cents from me. The lab tech at work has just been diagnosed with MS, not very nice at all.

Mark

[TrevorW]

Cheers Mark, at least some people here have a sense of humour and those that figure I'm pushing a guilt trip maybe I've hit a sore point.

The fund has collected over a $1000 so far and thanks to the 3 people from this forum who have donated.

As you know this is a cause I have first hand knowledge about, and if guilt is the only way to get people to help out, then so be it, you'd think I was asking for blood, but as is often the case when it comes to charity people turn the other way and hide their wallets.

Regardless the debate here seems totally pointless in that the inevitable will happen some may believe that a change of Govt will fix the problem but personally I doubt it will, and as Mike often points out we live in a lucky country and I believe we will continue to do so for a very long time regardless of the political party at the helm but if we don't, we can only blame ourselves for it.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

and as Mike often points out we live in a lucky country and I believe we will continue to do so for a very long time regardless of the political party at the helm

Eeeexactly!...so a vote for a strong NBN is very worthwhile

Good luck with the charity work Trevor

Mike

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Cheers Mark, at least some people here have a sense of humour and those that figure I'm pushing a guilt trip maybe I've hit a sore point.

No sore point Trevor, sorry to disappoint you. You have had an entire thread on this subject and it is obvious your passionate about this, so that being the case, I think you meant what you said. You may try and hide behind what you said as being humour, but I don't see anything at all funny about what you stated, as it isn't a funny subject. Not at all. I have a good sense of humour, but there are a few subjects I won't go near and that is one of them.

I support causes that I am affected by along with others, including MS, so if you are trying to infer something, you're wrong. I will continue to support causes, just don't like be badgered into do so, as it simply puts people off. I discovered that when I was involved in fundraising, which I have done a number of times in my life.

Sadly, with cost of living pressures people are finding it harder to give to charity and other causes, and charities are particularly under extreme pressure right now. Unfortunately, it is a sign of the times.

So, don't try and guilt me by saying it is a sore point. That just doesn't work.

[Larryp (Laurie)]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Eeeexactly!...so a vote for a strong NBN is very worthwhile

Good luck with the charity work Trevor

Mike

The NBN is a worthwhile project, Mike, but so are many other things. The big problem with this country is we are over-governed. I remember reading in "The Financial Review'' back in 1985 that we have 41% of our workforce employed in government and para-government jobs, ie non-productive jobs, compared to the USA with 21%.This ratio is probably much worse now.
If we reduced our level of government, and hence the number of government employees, we could accomplish so much more.
We have both state and federal depts. of education and health, for instance-we should eliminate 1 level and that would save us a fortune!
That money could be spent on other things.

[rat156]

Originally Posted by Larryp

The NBN is a worthwhile project, Mike, but so are many other things. The big problem with this country is we are over-governed. I remember reading in "The Financial Review'' back in 1985 that we have 41% of our workforce employed in government and para-government jobs, ie non-productive jobs, compared to the USA with 21%.This ratio is probably much worse now.
If we reduced our level of government, and hence the number of government employees, we could accomplish so much more.
We have both state and federal depts. of education and health, for instance-we should eliminate 1 level and that would save us a fortune!
That money could be spent on other things.

Like all the (now unemployed) public servants...

What an amazingly myopic point of view, the above statement states that ALL public servants are non-productive. Have a look at the state of play in Qld, Campbell Newman has ripped the guts out of the public service. That's working out really well

More Alan Jones type rhetoric, i.e. opinionated utterly uninformed rubbish.

Cheers
Stuart

Disclaimer, yes, I work for the DoD.

[Larryp (Laurie)]

Originally Posted by rat156

Like all the (now unemployed) public servants...

What an amazingly myopic point of view, the above statement states that ALL public servants are non-productive. Have a look at the state of play in Qld, Campbell Newman has ripped the guts out of the public service. That's working out really well

More Alan Jones type rhetoric, i.e. opinionated utterly uninformed rubbish.

Cheers
Stuart

Disclaimer, yes, I work for the DoD.

Non-productive in the sense that they do not create wealth for the country-they only administer the country. And I stand by my statement we are over-governed.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by Larryp

Non-productive in the sense that they do not create wealth for the country-they only administer the country. And I stand by my statement we are over-governed.

Aren't hospital staff, teachers, fire, police, many road and traffic workers, universities, CASA, AQIS and the military, government or para-government? To say they 'only administer' is a misrepresentation.

[Larryp (Laurie)]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Aren't hospital staff, teachers, fire, police, many road and traffic workers, universities, CASA, AQIS and the military, government or para-government? To say they 'only administer' is a misrepresentation.

The people you mention, David, come under essential services, and they don't just "administer" They would be there under any form of government.
I am talking about the huge bureaucracies that administer everything. For instance, we have federal and state education depts., and federal and state health depts. We should eliminate all the duplication and we would save a lot of money, which could then be allocated to those you have mentioned.
Governments love to create bureaucracies, and unfortunately we have three tiers of government doing this.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by Larryp

Governments love to create bureaucracies, and unfortunately we have three tiers of government doing this.

Hi Laurie,

I agree with your sentiments and originally understood what you meant. Yes, we have three tiers of government, but are you proposing that we eliminate the state governments and hand that control to local councils? That is exactly what the federal government probably have in mind, with the idea of having a referendum at the next election to recognise local government, in the constitution. Will this lessen bureaucracy, I doubt it. It just moves it around.

That would be a step too far, as local government often appear to be a law unto themselves now. Politicising local government would be an absolute disaster, as it would remove state rights and marginalise state government. I have had so many problem with local governments, as they flirt the law and impose their own restrictions. If it wasn't for the state executive, I would have had to take expensive legal action.

Right now, I am being bullied by a council, and bullying by its definition is the use of force or coercion, and have very little in the way of stopping them. I won't go into details on this as there is likely to be a court case, and it is likely to get messy, as it also involves state government. The council will just do what they want to do and if you don't like it, take it to court. This is an expensive exercise and they know that and use that against you by saying that they will do everything they can to fight it. Problem is, the money they use is ratepayers money, so they don't care. Just put up rates to compensate. Frankly, I am sick of rate hikes.

If councils get that recognition, god help us all. The federal government have had two referendums before with an overwhelming no vote, from memory, and they will keep trying until they get the yes answer they want. Leave the system as it is, it sort of works. Now I will hear howls of derision, if so, please provide an example where it works better before doing so.

Do you really want Canberra dictating terms and doling out money directly to councils, those councils that support a particular party. Not me.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

It's true there is wastage in the public service (just as there is in business) but I suspect it is less then what many people fear. When I was in Dept of Social Security in the early 80s the entire administrative cost (capital, consumables and wages) was 1% of the operating budget. Considering how much farnarkelling could be involved in paying a pittance I think that was pretty good.

What I saw then (and what I see in a different way where I am now) was how much money was wasted in an attempt to save money. A simple one was the under-supply of application or change of circumstance forms (the sort of thing clients had to fill in to get on benefit or change address/number of kids/income etc). When we (often!) ran out and Sydney central had no more in stock we would have to photocopy some. The cost per copy on a photocopier (the old wet type) must have been at least 10x the cost of printing, probably closer to 100x, and then someone stood next to the copier as it turned out about 10 sheets/minute. These days my sister, a nurse with 30 years experience and in charge of wards, can spend up to half a shift on the phone trying to arrange a casual for the next shift because they are 'saving' on clerical support staff. This does affect patient care and someday, somewhere will cost a life.

[rat156]

Originally Posted by Larryp

The people you mention, David, come under essential services, and they don't just "administer" They would be there under any form of government.
I am talking about the huge bureaucracies that administer everything. For instance, we have federal and state education depts., and federal and state health depts. We should eliminate all the duplication and we would save a lot of money, which could then be allocated to those you have mentioned.
Governments love to create bureaucracies, and unfortunately we have three tiers of government doing this.

Laurie,

These so called "huge bureaucracies" that you mention, how big are they? How much of the total Health and Education budgets do they consume? I'm afraid that you've been misinformed somewhere along the way. If Health and Education are anything like Defence, and they are worse off, of that I know, then there is very little in their budgets for unnecessary duplication.

Perhaps you fail to realise that there are both State and Federal implications for Health and Education, which are better served by having a Federal dept which looks after Federal Education issues, and a State one that looks after State issues. The only alternative is to have an only Federal approach, which would necessitate the expansion of the Federal Ed Dept enormously, it may even have to set up an office in each State.

Undoubtedly there is waste in the public service, I see it every day, but there's waste in the private sector as well, I saw that when I worked there, I believe that the larger the business the more perceived waste there is, but as a percentage of turnover it becomes smaller. The Governments (all put together) are easily the largest business in the country, so waste may seem to be huge, but in relation to the overall scheme it's tiny.

This is just Government bashing, like the Shock Jocks and their ilk want you to do. Do some research before sinking the boot into the Government (Federal or State, either party), know something more than platitudes and headlines before slashing the public service and putting many hard working people in the dole queue. KNOW what it means to all sectors of society before casting your vote on September 14.

If you're in doubt ask any of the members here that work or worked in Health in QLD to see what casting the wrong vote will do to both Health and Education, not to mention the NDIS, NBN etc.

Cheers
Stuart