telecope for 12 year old

[liss79 (Australia)]

Hi, I'm getting my son a telescope for his 12th birthday and have know idea what to get him. I had know idea that their is such a huge range of different things out their to buy. But a few different sites I found recommended the dobsonians would these be good for him? I was looking at the 8 " one and would he need anything else to go with it? Or if this brand wasn't ok what else would people recommend. As I have know idea where to start. I do want to get him something that is relatively decent though.
Thank you.

[Astro_Bot]

Hi and welcome to IIS.

I'm sure you'll get plenty of opinions, but mine is that an 8" manual/"push-to" Dobsonian is a good choice for a 12 yo:

• Simple and relatively unbreakable
• Quick to setup, nothing to learn (except the stars) - suited to the short attention span of a 12yo
• Good value-for-money
• Easy to sell - there're always other begineers looking for a Dobsonian
• 8" is not too heavy - your son can probably lift it himself
• Few if any accessories needed (save eyepieces and maybe star charts and a red torch)
• Will last for years without anything wearing out
• Enough aperture to grow with him and keep him interested for years

You can get an 8" Dobsonian (or Dob for short) in either solid tube or collapsible "truss tube" styles. For 8", I don't see any need to pay extra for the truss tube, so I'd go with the solid tube style.

There are three brands of Dobsonian easily available: Skywatcher, Saxon and GSO, In my opinion, it's much of a muchness - Skywatcher/Saxon are virtually identical and GSO not much different. Pick whichever one you like.

You'll get a couple of eyepieces and these will do to start with, but after a while, you/he may want to get slightly better/more eyepieces - that's another discussion entirely and not that important right now.

There's free planetarium software you can download - Stellarium - and it's easy to use - well suited to a beginner.

For outside use, a book of star charts and a cheap red torch (or a torch with a few layers of red cellophane over it) will also be useful. There are plenty of books he can also read suited to beginning astronomy, but I'll leave that to others as I don't have any myself.

Hope this helps.

[niko]

Yep - 8" dob and the eyepieces that come with it will be a great gift

[Deeno]

8" Dob sounds like pretty good advise to me. Minutes to set up and use.
Scopes on equatorial mounts can be a bit of a chore to set up and the average twelve year old might lose interest....

Good aperture for the price. Only thing extra you will need is something to collimate the mirrors (align), cheshire or laser collimator. Maybe a red light torch to preserve your night vision and some star charts.

http://www.andysshotglass.com/Collimating.html

http://www.skymaps.com

This comes out every year
http://www.bintel.com.au/Accessories...oductview.aspx

http://www.stellarium.org/

Avoid department store scopes as they tend to be toys....

A couple of places to check out
http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/...oductview.aspx

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-co....htm#dobsonian

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-co....htm#dobsonian

They usually come with a few eyepieces to get you going.

I'm sure others will chime in with their point of view.

Good Luck!

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Yep an 8" dob is great starter scope for a 12yr old. Importantly, he will get a good few years out of it, before he needs to go bigger.

Cheers,
John B

[narky (Sam)]

I'm less astronomer and more a 12 year old at heart.

If he has a great interest in astronomy/space/something similiar I'd certainly recommend the dob as its the best way to check out the sky for the price.

But if he just wants a telescope because he thinks they're cool, I'd recommend a refracting telecscope.

They never need maintenance/alignment and they can also be used in the daytime to check out anything.

My 12 year old neighbour has zero interest in checking things out at night, but he bugs me almost every weekend if he can borrow my scope to see what the neighbours down the street might be doing.

(I should add, i bought the refracting telescope for pretty much the same reason). Daytime usage is a big bonus

Cons, not much light collecting on a refracting scope. I can't see nebula (which you can make out pretty clearly on a 8" dob), but great for viewing planets/moon.

[Suzy]

Oh yes most definitely the 8" dob as others have said.

Astro_bot that was a brilliant post.
You should consider bookmarking it and using it again in the future.

Make sure you check out the sky maps link Deeno gave- it's a great site.

Oh! Nearly forgot- liss79. That's an awesome thing you're doing for your son and I'm sure you will both get great enjoyment from observing the night skies together.

[Steffen]

Another vote for the 8" Dob My son got one for his 13th, too

Regarding the anything else bit, those Dobs come with all the necessary accessories to get him started. Beyond that the sky is the limit and he'll find plenty of things to spend his pennies on (like with any other hobby).

In hindsight (having bought one myself way too late), the first accessory I would recommend buying is a height-adjustable observing chair. The difference this makes to what you can see through the telescope is much bigger than the difference between the included eyepieces and some $300+ eyepieces (which for many beginners are the first accessories they lust for).

Cheers
Steffen.

[pmrid (Peter)]

Yep, a Dob is fine. But make sure it comes with a decent finder scope and that you get the finder aligned with the main scope BEFORE your son gets his first look. The reason is that Dobs, by their nature, are not all that easy to point for someone who is just starting. So a small finder scope will make sure he is in the right area and does not have any initial negative experiences having problems finding what he wants to see. Most dobs do have finders, but straight out of the box, you'll have to align it yourself. The easiest way is to set the dob up in daylight and see if you can point it at some distant terrestrial object - the tip of a church steeple, a telephone pole - whatever - and then use the adjusting screws on the finder to bring it onto the same object. Then, you're in business.
Peter

[Steffen]

Good point about the finder. Out of the box, the GSO/Bintel Dobs have the better finder scopes (compared to the SkyWatcher/Saxon ones).

Cheers
Steffen.

[Rod]

I agree with the recommendations of an 8 inch dob. I would add a telrad or quikfinder:

http://www.bintel.com.au/Accessories...oductview.aspx

I think they are much easier to use and align than an optical finder. They are easy to add to the scope later as they just stick on with double sided tape.

When I was a beginner I found aiming the scope to be a real pain. A telrad made a big difference. The quikfinder is the the same idea, just a bit smaller and lighter.

Rod.

[The Mekon (John Briggs)]

Originally Posted by narky

I'm less astronomer and more a 12 year old at heart.

If he has a great interest in astronomy/space/something similiar I'd certainly recommend the dob as its the best way to check out the sky for the price.

But if he just wants a telescope because he thinks they're cool, I'd recommend a refracting telecscope.

They never need maintenance/alignment and they can also be used in the daytime to check out anything.

My 12 year old neighbour has zero interest in checking things out at night, but he bugs me almost every weekend if he can borrow my scope to see what the neighbours down the street might be doing.

(I should add, i bought the refracting telescope for pretty much the same reason). Daytime usage is a big bonus

Cons, not much light collecting on a refracting scope. I can't see nebula (which you can make out pretty clearly on a 8" dob), but great for viewing planets/moon.

This is the best advice posted so far. Sorry but an 8" Dob is not always the right choice for a budding young astronomer.

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by The Mekon

This is the best advice posted so far. Sorry but an 8" Dob is not always the right choice for a budding young astronomer.

I agree,

It would have the potential to put him off with the need for collimation, which was the reason I decided to try a refractor next. And I'm far from young

What about the SW102 with AZ mount currently for sale here in IIS? I'd call that ideal for a first scope.

Cheers

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by GeoffW1

I agree,

It would have the potential to put him off with the need for collimation, which was the reason I decided to try a refractor next. And I'm far from young

Cheers

My son could collimate a 10" Newtonian very proficiently at 9 years of age. He could also align and use the Argo Navis Digital Telescope Computer very proficiently at the same 9 years of age. The only reason he couldn't do either of these things at 8 years of age was that I didn't show him until he was 9.

Why recommend someone a telescope which will provide dim disappointing detail less views compared to an 8" Newtonian.

If the only telescope I was allowed to have was a 4" refractor, to be honest I would probably find something else to spend my time on, other than astronomy, because I would find the views very uninteresting and boring. Where do you see the queues at Star parties, behind 4" refractors or 18" dobs?

If it's for imaging then it's a whole new ball game.

An 8" dob isn't too big for him to handle and he's growing bigger not smaller. Collimation isn't very difficult and takes about 2 minutes at the start of a session. The views in the 8" dob will be vastly superior in every respect to those provided by a small refractor, or as I call them, "a toy telescope".

Cheers,
John B

[narky (Sam)]

Originally Posted by GeoffW1

I agree,


What about the SW102 with AZ mount currently for sale here in IIS? I'd call that ideal for a first scope.

Cheers

That's the scope I have and its awesome. Would recommend for a 12yr old. It's light and movable, easy to aim and use, and can be used in the daytime.

[dannat (Daniel)]

I know some could collimate a reflector but a 90mm f11 or 100mm refractor on altaz mount can serve use as a daytime scope also (avoid the cheap EQ mounts) & need next to no maintainance

A good pair of binoculars can also be a good choice for kids.

My 12 yr old has a bit of trouble moving around a 8", less so a 6" dob-it's a tad liter

[Deeno]

My father and I both had an interest in astronomy and purchased a small refractor when I was about twelve or so (he still has it). We looked at the Moon through it and the planets were pretty...well...uninspiring. And that was about it.

It wasn't until almost thirty years later when I had the opportunity to have a view through a twenty inch dob that reignited the desire the small refractor extinguished....

[norm]

Hi,

I'd concur with an 8" inch dob. Collimating is nor here nor there. I'm sure there would be locals in Mackay whom could show you how. The other thing to consider is if no one in the family has an iPhone, ipad or I touch, If so consider purchasing Sky Safari - it's great for understanding the night sky for navigating, not to mention the educational aspect of it.


Good luck

Norm

[narky (Sam)]

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

Sam,

How do you know its awesome? What other scopes have you looked through to compare it to?

Judging by this thread of yours which you only posted 2 days ago where you ask, "how do I know what magnification I am using"

I think I am correct in assuming, you haven't used very many different scopes at all.

Cheers,
John B

Its awesome because:

Its light, but still functional.
It's easy to point,
It's maintenance free.
It has the added bonus of being used in daytime.

Important things to consider given this is for a kid to use.

The dob isn't as light. It isn't as easy to point, and it isn't maintenace free.

Why would me using a lot of scopes change any of these facts?

That said I've been to a few star parties and looked through enough scopes to pick out something for a 12 year old. If someone said "I want to build my own observatory", well I'd certainly stay out of that thread.

Add to that that I did clarify my statement by saying "I'm more 12 year old than astronomer." I really wanted the OP to think about what the kid would want.

The kid may care more about being able to use and set it up himself.
He may have other interests/activities that might mean a daytime scope would be handy. Or maybe he'd be better off with a great set of binoculars. Perhaps he just thinks a telescope would look cool in his room (and dobs really aren't sexy).

I just wanted to remind the father that responses here are more aimed towards "what is the best way to view the cosmos", and its important to consider there are other factors that will greatly influence whether this scope is ever used or not.

[skysurfer]

I'd rather say: buy a small refractor such as [url=http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Refractor/SkyWatcher-SW102/140/productview.aspx]this Skywatcher 10cm Startravel[/ur]. Ok, less aperture but far more convenient to handle and *really* maintenance free. No collimation hassle (for a 12 year old boy it can be a hassle). No such things as 'Daddy, can you bring the telescope outside' or 'Daddy, can you collimate the scope, I see fishes instead of stars'.
I have a friend (a well experienced astrophotographer) with a 13 year old son who has a simple 10cm tabletop Dobson and is very happy with it.