.... However there so many people these days taking spectacular shots with iphones and pads who publish the pictures straight off the camera and don't keep originals. These are the ones who so often have their work abused. I hope this thread helps these people to see through the hype on legal v moral and take better care of their work.
Barry
Maybe they don't care about IP.. personally, I wouldn't.
Like Paul mentioned earlier, if I publish a picture of anything, my (almost) only wish is that people that I know (and who know me) see it as quickly as possible... it is not "work".. it is sort of my message to the world.. and yes, it is nice to see my name as an author below (my peers WILL notice and that is what really matters here).. and that's about that. I don't believe in commercialisation of everything and anything. And I hope/believe many people are the same in that respect.
We can widen the field of our discussion and say that the same goes for any discussion on this forum, especially threads with technical advice offered - I am sure 90% of that may be commercially useful for someone.
Should we all stop giving technical advice here and start charging for it (or, start to communicate via PM with only people we want to tell certain things)?
Could any advice about products (for example, mounts and associated issues) turn into infringement of IP of manufacturer? Should we seek the permission from Meade for example when discussing the software that controls their mount?
I think that wouldn't be a good development.
If someone uses my shot(s) for commercial purpose (not that this ever happened), so be it and I don't care to know about it. This of course doesn't mean I don't value my own work, on the contrary - that is why I publish (when I do)
Many, but not all. I charge $500 for my weddings. That includes as many photos as I take, all on CD/DVD, with 20 edited versions. If I have to travel more than 50km for the wedding, I require fuel costs and food.
Nope - I give previews. The customer comes to me, or I to them, and I show them on my laptop.They chose which they want. If we cannot meet, I send a set of personal choice ones in email or host on my site, with a HEAVY, uneditable watermark over the centre of the picture, with a cross through the whole thing in 35% grey. Only ever had ONE person TRY to edit and publish the photo, and I quickly saw end to that - they did not get their images. Cheapskates!
Had another model who I shot her wedding TRY to tell me she had paid me by modelling for me. I beg your pardon Little Miss Up Yourself? I had done 3 photo shoots with her before, as she wanted to see MY pictures to see if I was good enough for her wedding. I gave her every single shot. When it came to the wedding, she did NOT provide food or even drink, but expected I shoot everything. And then when it came time to select which she wanted edited, she expected EVERYTHING on an external HDD, so "she could choose at home with her husband". Yes, I came down in the last shower...
It took a LOT of arguing to get the $500
At $500 a shoot (+food and transport) is about half the last wedding shoot my family had. (Serves them right for looking like they could afford it ) and it took ages to see the previews.
Pity you live so far away
I used to do videos for my family members (no charge of course). 30+ years ago with a home made colour video camera recorded on a 1/4" tape. The camera was a two vidicon device that I converted from NTSC to PAL. I still have some video from that camera and boy is it terrible compared to modern stuff.
The law has nothing to do with common sense or morality.
And "common sense" is usually just nonsensical mob opinion, and the enormously varied claims of what constitutes morality seldom better, and often if not usually worse.
Maybe they don't care about IP.. personally, I wouldn't.
We can widen the field of our discussion and say that the same goes for any discussion on this forum, especially threads with technical advice offered - I am sure 90% of that may be commercially useful for someone.
Should we all stop giving technical advice here and start charging for it (or, start to communicate via PM with only people we want to tell certain things)?
Could any advice about products (for example, mounts and associated issues) turn into infringement of IP of manufacturer? Should we seek the permission from Meade for example when discussing the software that controls their mount?
I think that wouldn't be a good development.
If someone uses my shot(s) for commercial purpose (not that this ever happened), so be it and I don't want to know.
Yes Bojan
I feel the same about assistance where I can give. There are three or four people on this forum who have needed technical assistance in repairs to LX200's and DOB mounts etc. I get them to bring the stuff too me and be prepared to spend the day here while I repair or redesign to solve problems. I do not charge (except maybe I say bring along a six pack if they wish to contribute). It lets me keep my machining skills and avoid SWMBO for the day.
At $500 a shoot (+food and transport) is about half the last wedding shoot my family had. (Serves them right for looking like they could afford it ) and it took ages to see the previews.
Pity you live so far away
I used to do videos for my family members (no charge of course). 30+ years ago with a home made colour video camera recorded on a 1/4" tape. The camera was a two vidicon device that I converted from NTSC to PAL. I still have some video from that camera and boy is it terrible compared to modern stuff.
Barry
For sure - I have a friend who's minimum wedding shoot cost is $1500. I have NO IDEA how they justify this, as weddings are honestly one of the easiest damned things to shoot. Everyone is already dressed and made up, everyone (mostly) looks pretty, usually in a nice location. Pfft. What's hard about it? Photogs that charge more are just hoping for that one person who thinks paying more = better photos, which 99% of the time is incorrect.
Longest I have stayed at a wedding has been 5 hours. At $100 per hour, that's still $80 per hour more than most jobs. Processing takes little time if you planned your shots to a theme properly - maybe 20 mins per shot MAXIMUM. Longer than that and you know the shot is NOT good! (usual per photo is 5 mins max).
I refuse studio work. Don't like false settings, and to me a studio is false. If I cannot do it indoors or outdoors in a natural setting, i won't do it. Sure, there is a time and place for studio, but not for me. ALL my model portfolios I do outside or inside (we have a long elegant hallway with PLENTY of natural light that looks INCREDIBLE in photos) Portraits and nudes done in a studio to me are absolutely grotesque - humans are natural, don't stuff them in with snoots, softboxes and barndoor lighing, especially not with purple gel backlight... YIK!!!
H, I find them easy. Plan it well in advance with the bride and family, take it from there. I have done now 17 weddings, and all except one went flawlessly (weather changed, and changed everything. Improvisation saved the day).
Sorry if that insults you, but that's how I feel.
This is the one where it went awry - in the end, she wanted the images high key with sepia toning. Not my favourite style, but she got what she wanted...
Every man and his donkey has a camera phone these days, and most have amateur DSLR's... if you want to keep up with Mum and Pop with the DSLR but offer at least some added value, you price accordingly.
If you wish to charge $1500, then that is your prerogative. I willkeep charging my $500 per 5 hour wedding. Sure keeps the bank manager happy.
Yes, and all those people with cameras are not photographers.
They're just that -- people with cameras.
H
What differentiates a photographer from a regular "human being"? The ability to take GOOD photos and process them well. The ability to SEE a scene.
And? Is that worth $1500? Maybe to you, yes, but not to me.
As I said, you keep charging $1500, and I'll keep charging $500. Whatever keeps you happy and justifies doing the job. I cannot see getting insulted over it.
It's what you make of it. No insults are ever intended, but if you perceive it as one, then that is surely only in your own mind.
and think its a little distorted. ( Unless i am misreading the analysis )
I noted all the ongoing "costs" used are based on a full >year< of living,
but the income was quoted for 20 shoots.
Even allowing for say 3/4 week per shoot ,
she is saying that she has trouble surviving for a year,
whilst only working the equivalent of say 15 weeks in that year???
I would also have trouble surviving on that.
The article (more a rant) is VERY distorted, especially equipment and supply prices. She was justifying her prices.
I give my customers a CD / DVD (costs CENTS each, not what this lady supposes they cost, especially if you buy in bulk). They can print it at their own cost. If they want me to print it, I charge them the actual cost plus $20 for my time to go and get it done, wait, and collect etc. Mounting/framing I won't touch.
Where I get prints, they charge me $1.75 per 8 x 12 print on Fuji paper (less $ if in bulk). More naturally if I want metallic paper like Endura etc.
In latest news, terrorists sick of being treated like photographers...
Seems like it's a sin to try and make a living doing wedding photography. If not a sin, then, we should be ashamed of what I /others charge, because apparently it's really easy work and because it's easy, we should be giving our work away.
Very rarely do people call to question the rates that other professions charge to the same extent photographers charge. But, when it comes to photography, because anyone can buy a DSLR nowadays, it's open season. Like, no-one will be able to tell the difference between someone who bought their first DSLR yesterday, with someone who's been shooting 15+ years, not withstanding savants and naturally-gifted artists.
I often wonder whether the people who deride photographers earning a decent living, talk dentists or mechanics or plumbers or lawyers down in charges?
The $500 client wants a disc of images and will usually ask a relative or a friend to photograph their wedding. The one day in their life that everything should be perfect. The person who is spending a sizeable amount, is paying for ability, reliability, consistency/style, experience and a good product.
It is true that some of the most highly paid photographers in the world aren't the best photographers. They're good business people. And, vice versa. I've seen examples of both.
If you're happy servicing the $500-odd base, more power to you.
In the end, it suffices to say that I value my craft and feel no wrong in charging accordingly. There will always be $500 clients, and, there will always be $5K+ clients. I must be doing something right, as I've now got bookings six months in advance. And, every half-a-dozen bookings, I will raise my rates accordingly by a small percentage. It is how I value myself. 2013 is my year. I hope to give away my career by the end of this year to be self-sufficient off what I consider my favourite hobby: making beautiful pictures.
I'm meeting a couple at 10 tomorrow morning. I'm hoping they choose a package with an album; I'm now getting my albums printed by a boutique in the US that makes gorgeous products.
And "common sense" is usually just nonsensical mob opinion, and the enormously varied claims of what constitutes morality seldom better, and often if not usually worse.
) and it took ages to see the previews.
