Windows 8

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Not all businesses are running to change as this poll by business insiders shows 9 reasons why business will not upgrade to win8

http://www.businessinsider.com/enter...dows-8-2012-10

[marki]

Not exactly a poll just some chump stating an age old opinion using someone else's figures. Where can we find the details of the sampling techniques used to gather such data . Best read some of the comments written below or even better this piece.

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-is-th...xp-7000006095/

Always the same

Mark

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

We shall see I don't see it being liked except by phone and tablet users

[Barrykgerdes]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

We shall see I don't see it being liked except by phone and tablet users

Yes! but they probably represent closer to 90% of potential users, a good market to attack. Personally I don't like the interface as it does not suit my usage but I belong to a small group of old hat geeks who don't appreciate changes but eventually fall into line line after the OS has been around for four or five years.

I think Microsoft should reward Mark financially for his reports on Windows 8.

Barry

[acropolite (Phil)]

Yes! but they probably represent closer to 90% of potential users

In that case make a special OS for them, microsoft have done that before and that's what they should have done this time. I suggest if you are contemplating Win8 simply google "Windows 8 a dud".

[marki]

Originally Posted by Barrykgerdes

Yes! but they probably represent closer to 90% of potential users, a good market to attack.

I think Microsoft should reward Mark financially for his reports on Windows 8.

Barry

I find it hard to believe 90% of the market is business alone. If you think about it logically how many people at work own at least 1 PC at home if not more e.g. a laptop? it stands to reason using that 90% figure that if everyone sitting behind a console at work has at least 1 device at home then business can at best only account for 45% of sales. I have one laptop supplied by my employer but have a PC, laptop and tablet at home so its 3:1 for me and I am definitely not alone in this as I know many others who also own several devices.

Microsoft can throw money at me if they like I will take it . But seriously I am excited about the possibilities of using the new platform in the classroom as it is far more interactive then win 7 ever was. We are virtually paperless at my college, every teacher and student has their own laptop with touch screens. There are no pens or text books or note books to be seen. Learning is no longer a 2D piece of paper and it is possible to deliver content in a far more interactive and interesting format as well as cater for the many different learning styles that are present in a class of 30 kids. For example in Science we have many different types of data loggers which the kids can hook up to their laptops and carry out experiments from simple heart rate and acceleration pracs right through to acid/base and redox titrations and just about everything in between. Smart boards allow us to draw a car on a slope, vary the mass/angles/gravity etc then simply tap the board and the car runs down the ramp showing the kids the effects of change. We have a software platform that not only allows us to mark rolls and other such mundane admin tasks, but also has the capacity for students to access notes, assignments, tutorials etc so they are never left behind even when home sick. As Microsoft has demonstrated the extra coding needed to convert existing static programs into interactive programs is minimal so I think many software companies will be jumping on board as the OS takes hold, it is only a small effort on their part to do so as none of the software will need a major re-write. As for companies well they will have to change as the majority of kids will be very well versed in this different environment (remember kids learn software at school now days not at work, most grade 2's and 3's would blow the average adult user into the weeds) and it would cost them money and time to train kids to work on old shoddy software.

What do I like about win 8? It's not a memory hog so is faster in every way, it boots faster, programs just open instantly, plug in a peripheral device like a camera or thumb drive and it there no more waiting 5 mins for it to be detected, they finally got rid of the bloody start button and put everything in one place that can be logically ordered on a single screen (i.e all astronomy programs here, graphics software there, no more scrolling through and endless list of randomly arranged applications, hated the start menu), programs (even older ones that would not run in win 7) and peripherals run better, no updates needed. I can still do everything I could in windows XP/7 but can now jump between that and the metro environment easily allowing for a much more interactive experience. The use of apps is brilliant (the best thing about apple devices also) as you can now download exactly what you want for little cost. It will be on tablets and phones as well so the learning curve is reduced. There are just so many more options.

Mark

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Though Mark even Apple have created a different OS for the ipad and iPhone I love the ipad and its interface but would not like it on the mac computer. I am not saying win8 is bad on tablets or phones just on the PC to hard to get to the nuts and bolts when it comes time to fix it as an IT tech you need access to the inner workings easily time is money as they say.

[marki]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

I am not saying win8 is bad on tablets or phones just on the PC to hard to get to the nuts and bolts when it comes time to fix it as an IT tech you need access to the inner workings easily time is money as they say.

Start screen --> right mouse click --> select "all apps" from the pop up task bar and take your pick, all administrative and system tools are there. Takes 2 seconds to access whatever you want and you don't have to go digging through 20 windows to get there. All the old DOS commands etc still work in the command prompt window. Warren you also have the choice whether you want to run in tablet style environment or win 7 style desktop environment, just a few simple mouse clicks and away you go.

Mark

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by marki

Warren you also have the choice whether you want to run in tablet style environment or win 7 style desktop environment, just a few simple mouse clicks and away you go.

Mark

This is exactly my point I don't think upgrading win8 with a tablet style invironment on a PC makes sense I and many others like the win7 environment and I see no advantage to buying and installing win8 on my PC only to make it look like Win7 that's madness really. And I for one think the release schedule is too short that is just greed expecting everyone to spend hundreds every 2 years when my PC still does everything I need it to do. At least apple only charge around $35 for their OS not the hundreds you have to pay Microsoft I use and love Win7 and will be sticking with it until they give me a good reason to change Win8 isn't reason for me.

[marki]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

This is exactly my point I don't think upgrading win8 with a tablet style invironment on a PC makes sense I and many others like the win7 environment and I see no advantage to buying and installing win8 on my PC only to make it look like Win7 that's madness really. And I for one think the release schedule is too short that is just greed expecting everyone to spend hundreds every 2 years when my PC still does everything I need it to do. At least apple only charge around $35 for their OS not the hundreds you have to pay Microsoft I use and love Win7 and will be sticking with it until they give me a good reason to change Win8 isn't reason for me.

Fair enough Warren but I like both environments and can slip happily between the two as they both have their advantages but would not buy it just for this reason. I have also listed a whole lot of other reasons why I like win 8 on this thread and that's what makes the $140 I payed for the pro version worth while. What I am really looking forward to is the huge jump in useability and flexibility of software programs that will surely follow and their possibilities in my day to day work of engaging and educating kids. I believe win 8 is miles ahead of win 7 simply because it can do everything the old OS used to and a whole lot more.

Mark

[RickS (Rick)]

Originally Posted by marki

What I am really looking forward to is the huge jump in useability and flexibility of software programs that will surely follow

Hope you're not holding your breath waiting for this, Mark AFAIK, there's no magic in Windows 8 that makes application development much easier.

[marki]

Originally Posted by RickS

Hope you're not holding your breath waiting for this, Mark AFAIK, there's no magic in Windows 8 that makes application development much easier.

I am not good at holding my breath, been smoking for 30 years . I remember seeing the first pre launch stuff Microsoft did with win 8, it was a long 2 hour video presentation. No there was no magic application to make software development easier but they did demonstrate how easy it was to turn a static application into a metro application by inserting a few lines of code into the program using a special app for software writers . Took the presenter all of 1 minute to achieve this using different coding languages and that is what I am referring to.

Mark

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Well I ran up my first Win 8 PC for a business environment ( training ? what training ? )
Geez, they've managed to hide the real controls down a deep hole this time but it's still XP\Win 7 underneath all the fancy doodahs on top.
This was a 64 bit version and it failed to take McAfee Antivirus install, incompatible but ther must be another version out there. IN our case it will cause some conflicts in our business policies as specified by HO but that is an internal thing.
From a business perspective it fails in some areas with legacy applications in usability. I hate to say it but businesses have a long term view on this for both user training and efficiencies so new is not necessarily best.
The 'start' page looks a bit cheap and bling for my tastes but you can get to a more business looking option BUT I was not impressed with the mouse\corner access to applications. It was hesitant and dropped off if the mouse moved too much or out of a narrow zone. I see most businesses\users adding desktop links to their high use applications.
From a support point of view it will take a bit of getting used to with finding all the tweaks and setup options. And I was just getting to grips with win 7 !
I may give it 12 months and upgrarde the new home Media PC I bought afew months back. It has an upgrade option as part of the deal. Also about to replace my big desktop at home. I would prefer that to be Win 7 at this point in time.
My perception at this point is that it is aimed and the home non PC literate user, push a button, get a result bit like a coffee machine. I suppose that is the trend really but business wise IMHO a PC still needs to be a PC first and foremost.
Score 7/10 for now...

[marki]

Originally Posted by ZeroID

Geez, they've managed to hide the real controls down a deep hole this time but it's still XP\Win 7 underneath all the fancy doodahs on top.

Which real controls have you lost?

Mark

[cjmarsh81]

Same basic OS as 7.

Metro is wasted on the non-touch users out there.

I found without a touch screen I was using the keyboard a lot more than the mouse. Could be a real headache for those that don't know how to launch applets by their names.

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Originally Posted by marki

Which real controls have you lost?

Mark

Nothing lost afaik, just buried in the fancy pictures. eg I had fun just trying to find out how to get it to connect to a LAN, it wants to be a wireless device so that has preference in any wizard or option.

Applets unless you add them to the Start screen are lost, no obvious programs from the missing 'Start' button.

New user has already managed to get totally lost trying to use MS Office. Fired up the Inbuilt 'download and pay' button instead of the corporate Office install I had done. So I removed the offending button from the screen.

And in our case, there is no Helpdesk OS support, it is outside our current Standard build, so he is on his own. He complained about that, then I told him he (big manager with own budget) chose it, it was not our standard PC issue.

[marki]

Originally Posted by ZeroID

Nothing lost afaik, just buried in the fancy pictures. eg I had fun just trying to find out how to get it to connect to a LAN, it wants to be a wireless device so that has preference in any wizard or option.

Applets unless you add them to the Start screen are lost, no obvious programs from the missing 'Start' button.

Strange I just plugged in the cable and it connected all by itself.

If you right click on the start page and choose "all apps" from the pop up task bar the next screen will show the lost apps along with every other program on the computer.

Mark

[mithrandir (Andrew)]

Todays SMH has an item on Win8. Love the last paragraphs:

Nielsen invited 12 experienced PC users to test Windows 8 on both regular computers and tablets and found:

• "The main user interface restricts users to a single window, so the product ought to be renamed 'Microsoft Window' "
• Flat icons reduce discoverability
• Very low information density on Windows 8 apps
• Live tiles turned start screen into “incessantly blinking, unruly environment that feels like dozens of carnival barkers yelling at you simultaneously”
• Error-prone gestures

A Microsoft Australia spokesman said "we won’t be discussing sales at this point" .

[marki]

Andrew most of this has already been posted below and as I have shown you are not locked to a single window, only new users seem to get trapped by this my self included until I started looking around. Funny thing is this artical states "invited several experienced PC users" for their first try of win 8. I mean isn't that statement just a little moronic? Experienced at what, certainly not win 8 and thats where the real useful feedback will come from, people who actually use the program, the rest it quite frankly spam? Still microsoft bashing is a national sport pretty much the same as Meade bashing is on CN. Win 8 is faster, less of a resource hog and gets on much better with 3rd party software and drivers then win 7 ever did and that alone makes it worth while.

Mark

[Colin_Fraser]

Have installed Windows 8 and have been putting it to the test for about a week.
Not that impressed with it so far.

Installed a favorite software package (which has 6 text and help files).
The program file and all the text and help files associated with the install are all placed in with the Apps.
If you have quite a few software packages installed, the App page is going to be huge and you will need a lot of scrolling to find the app you want.
I could not find a way of putting the apps associated files in a folder for easy access. Don't think there is a way to do it.

After I installed my program is where Metro really fails.
Press Windows key to bring up Metro environment Start page
Right click on screen
Move cursor to botton right hand corner
Select All Apps
Using trackpad, scroll up or down to scroll left or right (dumb) to find app
Click Changes.log
Opens in desktop environment. Read the file.
Close file
Press Windows key to get back to Metro environment Start page
Right click the screen
Select All Apps
Using trackpad, scroll up or down to scroll left or right (still dumb) to find app
Click Help file. This is a html file
Opens in IE in Metro environment
Read the file
Cannot close the file. No close button.
Move cursor to top of page. Cursor changes to hand.
Click and drag page to a bottom corner to remove.
This takes you back to Metro environment Start page
Away we go again. Only 4 more files to read.

This behaviour might be okay on a tablet but my laptop is NOT a tablet and I should not be forced to use it as a tablet.

Next thing I tried was to play a DVD. No Go. Microsoft no longer support playing DVD's on devices using their OS.
You have to purchase 3rd party software to play DVD's. I want to install Visual Studio 2010 but it is on DVD. Hope that works.

Opened up the desktop and ran IE. Set my favourites and home page. Seems pretty good.
Next step was to run IE from the Metro environment. Whoa, what a mess.
The favourite screen is full of Microsoft sites and took a bit to get rid of them all. The most disappointing thing is that I could not find where I can set my home page. Okay for a tablet again but no good for me. I will be giving that a wide berth.

If Microsoft want to do something radical, they should try listening to complaints. I doubt the will listen but if they did, they should give the customer an option to disable the Metro environment and bring back the Start button or give users a less 'in your face' method of launching applications.