TV Delos Owners??

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by bobson

You gave your "objective" review and concluded how DELOS is not as good as Pentax eyepieces

At which point did I say or allude to this? I believe that I said something to the effect that most people who have used both and evaluated them objectively cannot split their optical performance. Maybe I am missing something here.

Cheers,
John B

[bobson (Bob)]

What does this mean then:

I haven't used the DELOS yet but I have used the ETHOS countless times in a number of different focal lengths and in none of those focal lengths does the ETHOS outperform the equivalent focal length Pentax XW in terms of light throughput, contrast and sharpness. Their performance is extremely close, but if I had to split them, I would lean very slightly to the Pentax XW's. That is academic because I prefer more eye relief than what the ETHOS offers. I read countless internet reports on US forums about how this ETHOS and that ETHOS outperformed its Pentax XW equivalent, on such and such a target. That is just plain poppycock.

or maybe you need the whole lot so you can see:

You're going to read a lot of reports on US internet forums about how the DELOS is better than the Pentax XW's. Your also going to read reports about how the difference beween them is minimal. Don't lose sight of the fact that Americans are a very patriotic race and very loyal to their own brands and a lot of those reports are not going to be as objective as they might be. I haven't used the DELOS yet but I have used the ETHOS countless times in a number of different focal lengths and in none of those focal lengths does the ETHOS outperform the equivalent focal length Pentax XW in terms of light throughput, contrast and sharpness. Their performance is extremely close, but if I had to split them, I would lean very slightly to the Pentax XW's. That is academic because I prefer more eye relief than what the ETHOS offers. I read countless internet reports on US forums about how this ETHOS and that ETHOS outperformed its Pentax XW equivalent, on such and such a target. That is just plain poppycock. There is barely a struck match between them. Credit to Pentax that Televue took 11 years to catch up as the Pentax XL's, which pre dated the XW's and are almost the same performance wise, were born in 1996; 11 years before the ETHOS. The DELOS line uses the same lens, glass and coating technology as the ETHOS so you can assume its performance will be almost the same as the ETHOS and the Pentax XW's, which BTW is very top shelf.

We are discussing about Delos eyepieces here, right?
OK, you didn't say "is not as good" but:

I would lean very slightly to the Pentax XW's. That is academic because I prefer more eye relief than what the ETHOS offers.

But DELOS has the same eye relief as Pentax XW?

The DELOS line uses the same lens, glass and coating technology as the ETHOS so you can assume its performance will be almost the same as the ETHOS and the Pentax XW's, which BTW is very top shelf.

Because you wrote:

That is just plain poppycock.

But you can base your objectiveness on:

so you can assume its performance will be almost the same as the ETHOS and the Pentax XW's

And your assumption is not poppycock?

TV Delos Owners??
Hi All,

Was just wondering if anyone has any experience using TV Delos EP's??

You John don't have DELOS nor you ever used it. I don't have it nor I ever used it.
That's all I am saying here.

cheers

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

How do any of my comments that you have duplicated above allude to this statement?

Originally Posted by bobson

You gave your "objective" review and concluded how DELOS is not as good as Pentax eyepieces even though you admit never looked through one!

Being an educated reasonably intelligent person I was in fact very carefull to purposelly not draw the conclusion you are saying I drew. I said to my eye the Pentax XW was very slightly better in its optical performance than the ETHOS, but it was very close and they were both very good. I did not draw any conclusion on the DELOS other than to say it would be very good and close to the ETHOS and Pentax XW's. It may be better than the ETHOS because it uses the same glass and coating technology but has less lens elements than the ETHOS and therefore may have slightly better contrast and light transmission.

I suggest you very carefully re read EXACTLY what I said because you clearly are not grasping what I said. Prior to re reading my comments I suggest you take a crash course in English 101 and Written Communication Skills. Primary school English would be a good place for you to start, as you are clearly misreading my simple comments.

Cheers,
John B

[bobson (Bob)]

And in the process you managed to criticize Americans how they are not objective because:

Americans are a very patriotic race and very loyal to their own brands

As if this is something bad to be patriotic and loyal to own brands?

Internet reports on US forums are:

That is just plain poppycock.

And God forbid if someone dares to say something different than great John B then:

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by bobson

And in the process you managed to criticize Americans how they are not objective because:


As if this is something bad to be patriotic and loyal to own brands?

I didn't say it was a bad thing. I said it was something you needed to consider when evaluating reviews.

Just for your information I can also tell you that I own 5 Pentax eyepieces and 11 Televue eyepieces/accessories.

Cheers,
John B

[MortonH]

Originally Posted by bobson

And in the process you managed to criticize Americans how they are not objective because:


As if this is something bad to be patriotic and loyal to own brands?

Internet reports on US forums are:



And God forbid if someone dares to say something different than great John B then:



You lucky you don't have to mate.

Bob,

Even if everything you say were true, I don't see the need to turn the OP's request for "advice/pointers" into a personal attack on someone's opinions or their motives for sharing them. It's of no benefit to anyone reading this thread.

For what it's worth at this stage, I appreciate John's enthusiasm for Pentax eyepieces and it's a useful reminder that Televue isn't the only company making great eyepieces. Those of us who haven't owned or used lots of premium eyepieces can only benefit from the experience of others who have. It doesn't mean that we blindly believe whatever they say.

Morton

[bobson (Bob)]

Even if everything you say were true, I don't see the need to turn the OP's request for "advice/pointers" into a personal attack on someone's opinions or their motives for sharing them. It's of no benefit to anyone reading this thread.

That's exactly my point. We share our opinions here. I didn't use word "poppycock". I didn't say anything about Americans. I don't see need for it in order to explain things.
The bottom line is, he hasn't got DELOS and all his writing is based on his assumptions. If you are happy to read that I don't have problem with it. I simply expressed my opinion on his writing. Or maybe you believe I am not allowed to do so?

[MortonH]

Originally Posted by bobson

That's exactly my point. We share our opinions here. I didn't use word "poppycock". I didn't say anything about Americans. I don't see need for it in order to explain things.
The bottom line is, he hasn't got DELOS and all his writing is based on his assumptions. If you are happy to read that I don't have problem with it. I simply expressed my opinion on his writing. Or maybe you believe I am not allowed to do so?

Hi Bob,

You are absolutely entitled to express your opinion. It's varying opinions that make internet forums worthwhile. The downside is that one's intentions in writing can be misinterpreted by the readers. So I may have misinterpreted something, or nothing, or everything!

I guess the main point for me is that the exchange of messages has diverted the thread somewhat from the original point, and as someone who is interested in the new Delos 17.3mm I'd like to get back on track.

All opinions for and against Televue, Pentax and others are most welcome!

Regards

Morton

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Hi Morton

With respect to the specific question of how would the 17mm Delos fair especially if considered in comparison to the Pentax XWs one, albeit simplistic answer, would be that the Delos is much better simply because there is no equal fl in the Pentax range (there is no 24/25XW either which is another gap I suspect many would have liked to be filled). I imagine the closest you could feasibly achieve would be either to use the XW40mm with some sort of 2.5 barlow or the XW30mm with some sort of 1.8 barlow. This is, IMHO, one of the significant real flaws to the XW range which John has mentioned on numerous previous occasions that there are in fact significant "gaps" in the focal lengths of the EPs. This is why many folks who have the XWs also tend to have the 17mmT4 nagler as well to plug the gap in the XW range. The 17T4 IMHO is an excellent EP however - ironically - I have also thought of possibly buying the 17mm Delos as a possible replacement for the 17T4 which is roughly 750grams and 2'. Whereas the Delos is about half the weight (i.e. akin to a XW if such a thing as a 17mm XW existed) and is 1.25 and thus a match with all the other XWs (20mm and down) in terms of filters etc.

I tend to agree with John that the great "curvature" problem in the higher Fl XW's is grossly overstated. I have spent considerable time looking through the 14 and 20 and in my scopes (all refractors) I really can't perceive anything. Ironically, the one EP which I do seem to perceive something is my 17T4 however it really seems neglible "to me" and certainly not something worth discarding the EP over. It is good to make people aware of this possible issue with the long focal length XWs but I also agree from my own experiences that it is something which, as John has previously mentioned, perhaps only arises in some scopes with some people.

Finally, I would have to say that a lot of this discussion is academic and abstract as, akin to Johns previous comments, Televue and Pentax both make superb eyepieces and it is a toss of the coin but ultimately a win, win situation with both as I can't see how people would be seriously disappointed with purchasing either as they are both extremely good. My own feeling is that the attributes which mostly differentiate many of these EPs are more to do with things like ergonomics than anything else. Consequently, it really boils down to what you specifically require from the EP rather than whether one is, in simplistic terms, purely better than the other.

Many years ago I was told A astronomy was all about 'compromises' in terms of getting one feature or attribute at the expense of another. In hindsight I realise that this was a very valid insight into the equipment for this hobby.

[MortonH]

Thanks, Profiler. Very useful.

When writing the previous messages I didn't realise that Televue have a 10% off sale for the rest of the year. Seems a trip to Bintel might be in order! It's quite a while since I bought a brand new eyepiece - even longer for a premium one.

Morton

[Profiler (Profiler)]

The price reduction seems to be a little more than 10% as T6 Naglers previously were $339 and are now $299 or thereabouts. However, I am not certain what has brought about this price change - I thought it was simply because of the high AUD - I didn't see anything on the Bintel site but realistically it is never a bad thing when the prices go down - I guess it is time for everyone to start thinking about Christmas

[MortonH]

It's an official sale by Televue. Prices in the US are down too.

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Yep - you are quite correct - Uncle Al is giving everyone a 10% discount off EPs barlows etc - and for us with the high AUD it actually works out to be a fraction more.

It's a cute advertisement on their website too boot!

[issdaol (Phil)]

Originally Posted by Suzy

Adoroma in the U.S. have the Pentax XW5, 7 & 10mm on sale at the moment for only $279, plus shipping ($60 to Qld)- that comes in at $330. It's the cheapest I've seen them so I couldn't resist jumping in and adding a 5mm to my XW collection.
OPT are still selling them for $360 plus shipping.

http://www.adorama.com/searchsite/de...info=pentax+xw

Hi Suzy,

Thanks for the great link. It looks like a great saving there. Have you dealt with them before?

Cheers

[Satchmo]

Originally Posted by Rodstar

Anyone likely to come to the Central Coast group (Mangrove Mountain) in the next few months with a 17.3mm Delos??

Rod - I had a look through the first Bintel arrival at SPSP with the Melish 22" F5 . We looked at the Tarantula. Nice view with NGC 2070 filling the field. Nice contrast. Then I put in a 17mm Ethos ...and put the Delos back in its box. Contrast looked similar but the wider field made it look like a different object altogether. I recommend saving your money unless you have to wear your glasses to observe

[issdaol (Phil)]

Hi All,

Thanks for the great input and feedback. Looks like I have prompted a bit of a interesting discussion there regards Delos vs Pentax :-)

I have decided to get both and compare and keep the one I prefer and sell off the one that I don't.

Cheers

[Suzy]

Originally Posted by issdaol

Hi Suzy,

Thanks for the great link. It looks like a great saving there. Have you dealt with them before?

Cheers

Phil, I'm really sorry to ad more angst to your thread regarding the above post.

Moving on...
This is the first time that I've dealt with them and I was very impressed with their service. I got it within a week of ordering and I was very impressed with how well it was packaged. To be honest, the best I've seen yet. I also loved the tracking ap. which was linked to my facebook account- that was so much fun!

[issdaol (Phil)]

Hi Suzy,

No problem

Looks like I will give these guys a go for my Pentax Purchase and Bintel for the TV''s

Unless anyone knows a reliable local supplier for Pentax?? as I prefer to support local suppliers over international suppliers where possible even if local cost is a little higher (obviously within a reasonable % )

Cheers

Originally Posted by Suzy

Phil, I'm really sorry to ad more angst to your thread regarding the above post.

Moving on...
This is the first time that I've dealt with them and I was very impressed with their service. I got it within a week of ordering and I was very impressed with how well it was packaged. To be honest, the best I've seen yet. I also loved the tracking ap. which was linked to my facebook account- that was so much fun!

[Suzy]

Hi Phil,

As far as I know Frontier Optics in NSW is the only one nowadays. We lost a couple of astro shops that used to sell them.
If there is anyone else that sells them in Australia I would be curious.

Previously, I'd purchased my Denkenmeir 14mm off Daniel Berringer at Frontier and he was an absolute pleasure to do business with. The eyepiece took I think from memory about a month (or even more) to get here as it had to be made and Daniel kept me in touch right the way thru- I never had to chase him up once.

From memory, they were a tad expensive, I forget how much (I think about $450-500), but it was the standard price being charged at the time else where in Aus. so he was doing nothing wrong there.
There is no price on the website, so you will need to email him for a price.

http://www.frontieroptics.com.au/

[Kunama]

Just read this thread today and was quite astonished at some of the banter. Its a great pity that all forums sometime suffer from the dreaded "troll-itis" but suffer they do.
My 2cents having only met one iis member in person:

John B ..... a big thank you for your PMs and the long phone call to give me such good guidance in equipment selection, techniques, the pros and cons of Vixen GPs, eyepieces etc.......... really rekindled my interest in astronomy, look forward to buying you that beer one day.

Brian Nordstrom, hotspur, astroboy, garymck thanks for your replies to my questions via PM ...........

bobson ..... looking forward to a positive contribution from you

(I am going to make sure I never upset Suzy !!!!)

Cheers,
Matt in Jindabyne