Planetary EP...again?

[Krumlov (Gavin)]

Hello all,

Has been a few months since I last posted and am still getting used to my GS-680 8" dob.

I am however thinking about getting a new EP to view the planets. The supplied GSO super plossls (6mm/9mm/25mm) have been OK but I am keen to see more detail on the planets. For example, Saturn is bright but I can see no detail on the planet or any division in the rings (is it just me?). Jupiter I can just see a few feint bands. I have an Astrosystems laser collimator and think I have done a reasonable job with it.

I have searched widely for information on the "best" but often the threads go off on a tangent about a particular EP rather than detailing the pros and cons and what difference you would see from each EP. If anyone read ausastronomer's post in the Pentax-Nagler shootout thread that is what I am after.

So I have short listed the following although after doing more reading I am wondering if the Pentax is not the "best" for planetary (and if it is is it 4x better than the TMB?). I look forward to the comments:
Pentax XW 10mm FOV 70 ER 20mm $305
Baader Hyperion 8mm FOV 68 ER 20mm $185
TMB Planetary II 8mm FOV 58 ER 15mm $74
BST Explorer 8mm FOV 60 ER 13mm $74

Also I have a GSO 2.5x barlow that I plan to use in conjunction when conditions allow.

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

TMB's Gavin , these are the bargain of the decade . .
Brian.

[Poita (Peter)]

I agree, for the money a TMB is great. A 6mm is about best on my C8, don't know where the sweet spot would be on your dob.

However, if you are not seeing any detail, I would double check the collimation on a star test rather than the laser and make sure it is okay.

Seeing is everything with planets though.

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

I have a mate who has an HEQ5 mounted 8inch f5 dob and this 6mm TMB gives awsome sharp views of the moon and planets , but thats around 160x so the EQ mount is a must , its do'able with a dob but a 10mm TMB would be easier to track with .
Brian.

[MattT]

Seeing is everything. The best views I've ever had of planets is early in the morning. If the Pentax /Nagler type thing is what your after how about ES 6.7mm 82* series terrific eyepiece. I use mine in a 4" ED frac
Matt

[Krumlov (Gavin)]

Originally Posted by MattT

If the Pentax /Nagler type thing is what your after...

No I am not saying that is what I am after. I am after advice on what will provide the best detail of the planets. (In time I may be interested in other capabilities that those EPs offer)

Based on the replies so far I am taking away that the TMB will provide as good (or better?) view of the planets than the Hyperion or Pentax in my scope with my essentially untrained eye!?

[Varangian (John)]

I have a 3.5mm and 8mm Hyperion, they are excellent eyepieces with more versatility (using the finetuning rings), superior to the TMB IMO but about $100 more expensive (I have both Hyperions and TMBs).

Australian telescopes have a sale on Hyperions for about $155 excluding delivery.

[Krumlov (Gavin)]

Originally Posted by Varangian

(I have both Hyperions and TMBs).

You mentioned the Hyperions but which TMBs do you have? Why do you feel the Hyperions are better?

I found another similar thread over in the Eyepieces, Barlows and Filters forum where Suzy decided to go with the Pentax XW. Is there an answer to this?!

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

A "best" eyepiece question (for any use) is a lot like asking which is better Holden or Ford...the answer is it depends.

It depends on your budget, your interest, your scope and your experience.

Ergonomics and comfort play a big role too.

Long time planet watchers will normally rank the "best" planet watching eyepieces to be those of simple design with little glass (Otho etc.)...these can get mighty high quality and mighty expensive. The view is fabulous however the Field of View is tiny and the Eye Relief is nearly non existent. They work great if you have a tracking mount and don't mind squishing your eye to the lense. But in a hand driven dobsonian mounted reflector they are a lot more work.

I have Pentax (XWs), Teleview (Naglers, Ethos and Panoptics), Denkmeir, and a few TMB Planetary eyepieces...

Are the TMB's strictly speaking "as good as" the others...nope, but they are 96.3% (my estimate) as good. In my scopes it is hard to beat the Pentax XWs (I have the 7 mm and 10 mm)...they are comfortable to use and have a nice field of view. Having said that, for most folks on most nights they would be hard pressed to see a lot of difference between the TMBs and the XWs...

As you gain experience in using eyepieces you will develop some strong preferences for they type of gear that you like...wide fields, eye relief, simple design etc. So it really depends on you as to what the right answer is.

Cheers,

[dannat (Daniel)]

I think you can find the Hyperion cheaper thn that, I have had a couple of tmb & am not a big fan.
The bst explorer is a rebadged astro tech paradigm, while available from telescopes& astronomy in SA are fairly unknown yet solid performers
I'd take the lighter weight of th explorer over a Hyperion.

The xw I think will be learn the best p of the bunch, you just ave to weight up the cost

[Varangian (John)]

Originally Posted by Krumlov

You mentioned the Hyperions but which TMBs do you have? Why do you feel the Hyperions are better?

I found another similar thread over in the Eyepieces, Barlows and Filters forum where Suzy decided to go with the Pentax XW. Is there an answer to this?!

I have two Planetary II TMB Eps. The 7mm and the 3.2mm. They are good EPs for the money.

When I say the Hyperions are superior that is really just my opinion. Also, they are excellent by my standards but certainly not as good as Tele Vue, Pentax or even the Vixens, but you you are upscaling in cost considerably there. I have done a heap of research on EPs over the past six months so am nowhere near an expert but the Hyperions work for me because they provide very sharp pictures over 80% of the field, have a wonderful 68 degree FOV and the focal length can be altered by the use of filters or finetuning rings to give you a higher magnifcation from the same eyepiece. It's just me being a bit superficial but the TMBs aren't very attractive while the Hyperions are big nasty buggers that feel nice and look good. They also provide fantastic eyerelief 20mm, superior to the TMBs (but the TMBs at 15mm ER are very comfortable too). I also like using 2" filters which the Hyperions allow for.

Hope this at least helps differentiating between TMBs and Hyperions at a superficial level.
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=869-10493

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by Krumlov

Based on the replies so far I am taking away that the TMB will provide as good (or better?) view of the planets than the Hyperion or Pentax in my scope with my essentially untrained eye!?

Hi,

Thats incorrect. Without question the Pentax XW will give a better view of the planets than either of the other 2 eyepieces. Unfortunately however, as you spend logarithmically more money, the proportionate gain for spending that money reduces dramatically. The Pentax XW might give a 5% to 10% better view than the TMB Planetary. That assesment in itself is subjective, however the difference between the 2 eyepieces will be easily detected by an experienced observer under good seeing conditions, when used in a high quality telescope. A less experienced observer under marginal conditions would probably struggle to see any difference.

The big question comes back to what level of performance you are really seeking and how much you wish to pay for it. The Pentax XW is 4 times the price of the TMB planetary. It is a clearly better eyepiece to my eye and in my telescopes, but it isn't 4 times better. Only you can decide if it is worth spending all that extra money for something which is a bit better.

Cheers,
John B

[Vegeta (Ibrahim)]

I'm suprised no one has mentioned the Orion edge-on planetary series. I own a 6mm which I use on a 12" dob. This thing is Coma corrected right to the edge, and the contrast is amazing. I even use it for globulars and PN's. It only has a 55* AFOV, which is pretty narrow, but is a good size for it's use as a planetary eyepiece. I haven't tried the TMB's or Hyperions, so I can't give an evaluation.

[Astro_Bot]

Originally Posted by Vegeta

... the Orion edge-on planetary series

AFAICS, the Orion 'Edge On' series is the same as Teleskop-Service 'Edge On' and BST 'Flat Field'. I'm interested in their performance, too.

Originally Posted by dannat

bst explorer is a rebadged astro tech paradigm

That's also my understanding. The Explorers are also (AFAIK) branded BST 'Starguider', Teleskop-Service 'Dual ED' and Olivion 'ED'

[Krumlov (Gavin)]

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

Without question the Pentax XW will give a better view of the planets than either of the other 2 eyepieces.

Thanks for that. So really it is a case of you get what you pay for in this area. If I can afford the Pentax then I should definately get it because it will give me the best view of the planets. From reading I also understand it is an all round winner. I also like the fact that these EPs have come down a lot in price (like 50%) since the posts a few years ago that I have been reading.

The same could be said for the Hyperion I guess and that is what Varangian has found in his experience.

As a final question will my GSO 2.5x Barlow significantly degrade the image in the Pentax?

[MattT]

The GSO 2.5 I have doesn't make any difference I can see in any eyepiece I have tried it on, but I don't like using barlows all that mucking around in the dark not my cup of tea really. The Orion Edge Ons and LERs are fab too. The solution is to try as many as possible and choose one...easier said than done.

[Waxing_Gibbous (Peter)]

MY favorite planetary EP with the GSO 8" is a 7.5mm LE Takahashi.
Spectacular views. Clear,crisp and ghost free.
You can even dump your coma corrector.
However with 'only' a 50 degree FOV, a driven mount is practically a necessity.

Again, however, the quality of many wide-angle EPs available today is breathtaking.
Explore Scientific's 82 degree EPs are nothing to be sneezed at nor the TMB IIs (though I find them to exhibit some ghosting).
But if I had to choose only one, it would be a 9mm Nagler.
It's pretty common to pass these over as they have that "if it's popular it must be rubbish" stigma, but they are exceptional EPs - hence their popularity.

When it's all said and done, atmospheric conditons - seeing, transparency - will have far greater effect on your views than any comaparably specced EPs.

[astroron (Ron)]

Quote)But if I had to choose only one, it would be a 9mm Nagler.
It's pretty common to pass these over as they have that "if it's popular it must be rubbish" stigma, but they are exceptional EPs - hence their popularity.

I love my 9mm Nagler, I have a 9mm TMB which has had only one outing since I bought my nagler.
If anyone wants to buy the TMB make me an offer
Cheers

[Larryp (Laurie)]

I agree Ron. All my eyepieces are Naglers and I love 'em!

[Krumlov (Gavin)]

I think I shall go for the TMB 8mm now since it is cheap and see what the improvement in view is like and then later if I want the incremental improvement upgrade again. Thanks for all the advice guys.