There has been bullying in IIS in the past. In fact I left this very forum about 4-5 years ago when someone was abusing another member for asking a question (as daft as that question might have been). I have only just returned to IIS in the last week as it is important for me to be in contact with the astronomical community as I am about to embark on an astronomy degree and I am living far from anywhere that has ameuteur astronomers.
As others have said simply report the post to the mods. I have only had one person try via PM and I reported the post to the mods and sent a curt reply to the poster informing them that I had done so. Never heard from them again simple.
Alex I will have to disagree with you over your coments about the science forum. It had degenerated to such a state that it was no longer tolerable. I love science, even make my living from it but to see it being projected as it was and still is to some extent on this site if recent events are any thing to go by was very disappointing. IIS has been getting bad press over the behaviour of its members on the science board and that simply goes against one of the foundation statements on the home page i.e. to educate. I used to send my students there to find snippets of info when we were covering astronomy/physics topics but stopped doing so as all they were concentrating on was the name calling and fights that were taking place learning the bad things rather then understanding of important concepts . It may be some peoples idea of how you should conduct yourself as a scientist but certainly not mine. Many of the regular contributors on this site would not even go there let alone post due to fear of being labelled a fool or troll and publicly flammed. Bad form in any respect.
I find this site generally very civil. I haven't personally seen too much bullying but I am sure it has occurred.
I think one thing we don't want is to lose the wonderful friendly and enthusiastic Aussie spirit that is prevalent in this forum. It is by far the premier Astro site on the net in my opinion.
If you want to see how bad it can become check out DPreview forums for various cameras like Canon 5D3 in particular (Nikon D800 is a little better but can get animal at times). They are animal sites where poor behaviour is very common and innocently posted questions get attacked
by a few nasties.
Just remember the nasties are always very much a minority even if they try to make it sound like they are a majority.
The Ignore button is your best friend in this scenario.
Greg.
Last edited by gregbradley; 31-07-2012 at 08:49 PM.
I am glad to say that my OVERWHELMING experience of this site has been very positive. Almost everyone behaves in a very positive and constructive way. I have met some wonderful people through the forum, who are now friends and acquaintenances quite apart from contact on the IIS forum.
I am saddened that this is not the experience of others, and in particular it is most unfortunate that many of those who have posted have had a less positive experience of the IIS forums.
Part of creating a culture when bullying is the exception rather than the usual experience, is that we are all responsible to communicate in a civil and respectful manner. If each of us can ask ourselves the question before we submit a post, "Is this comment intended to help rather than harm", and only post what is helpful, then we will go a long way to avoiding the sot of behaviour Alex has identified.
Given that human nature does not change, whether at the pub or on a forum, it would surprising if there wasn't disputation or inappropriate behaviour from time to time. Just as in face-to-face meetings, there will always be people we do not like, or who we disagree with on most things....and as others have observed, common sense tells us that it will usually be better not to engage with such people and just to ignore them.
When we make mistakes, and jump down someone's throat (we are ALL capable of this, particularly if we are tired after a late observing session), and deep down we realise that our behaviour is less than ideal, I think it is important that we take responsibility for our behaviour and apologise. Sometimes having a misunderstanding with someone, and then finding resolution can lead to deeper friendship, and better understanding of each other's position.
The task of a moderator is rather difficult. We are not children. It is not the job of a moderator, in my opinion, to protect people from negative emotions. There will be strong disagreement from time to time, and that is a healthy thing, IMO.
Sometimes people can take offence at something that was never intended to offend. I can recall a recent thread where I took offence at something that in hindsight I do not think was intended to be taken in the way that I took it. Fortunately, we were able to come to a good understanding, and I think we all walked away from that interaction without any hard feelings.
Sometimes a person can go too far, and I would agree that if a thread reaches a point where people are becoming malicious and vindictive, this is the time when moderation is needed. I agree with Alex that such behaviour should be challenged by using the "report a post" function, and by PM-ing to try to sort it out.
As others have said simply report the post to the mods. I have only had one person try via PM and I reported the post to the mods and sent a curt reply to the poster informing them that I had done so. Never heard from them again simple.
Alex I will have to disagree with you over your coments about the science forum. It had degenerated to such a state that it was no longer tolerable. I love science, even make my living from it but to see it being projected as it was and still is to some extent on this site if recent events are any thing to go by was very disappointing. IIS has been getting bad press over the behaviour of its members on the science board and that simply goes against one of the foundation statements on the home page i.e. to educate. I used to send my students there to find snippets of info when we were covering astronomy/physics topics but stopped doing so as all they were concentrating on was the name calling and fights that were taking place learning the bad things rather then understanding of important concepts . It may be some peoples idea of how you should conduct yourself as a scientist but certainly not mine. Many of the regular contributors on this site would not even go there let alone post due to fear of being labelled a fool or troll and publicly flammed. Bad form in any respect.
Mark
Perhaps I should dig out a certain post of yours in the General Chat forum where you tried to incite further friction into a thread that had already degenerated into a bashing contest of certain individuals (including myself) who participate in the Science forum. In case you can't remember you referred to their "chronic masturbation habits".
What you are trying to do is to justify your own bullying.
As I have mentioned previously, the Science forum is nowhere near as aggressive as the General Chat forum, your own comments in the General Chat thread attest to that.
So why are certain individuals in the Science forum targeted?
I have a pretty good idea considering the term "elitist" has been mentioned on a few occasions.
Heck, what a sheltered life I have led, I've just discovered this thread, and read only this page, that's enough for me.
I'm a reasonably long term member, not as long as some I might add, but nothing in this forum has ever shown itself as bullying. WTF??
If you don't get the enjoyment from this forum., move on, forget ti, and go somewhere else. I did with another one, well got biffed off actually, but that's another story.
Enjoy this from, it is difficult to beat, believe me. Good people, good relationships, minimal arguing, and that arguing tends to be more civil that usual.
Gary
Perhaps I should dig out a certain post of yours in the General Chat forum where you tried to incite further friction into a thread that had already degenerated into a bashing contest of certain individuals (including myself) who participate in the Science forum. In case you can't remember you referred to their "chronic masturbation habits".
What you are trying to do is to justify your own bullying.
As I have mentioned previously, the Science forum is nowhere near as aggressive as the General Chat forum, your own comments in the General Chat thread attest to that.
So why are certain individuals in the Science forum targeted?
I have a pretty good idea considering the term "elitist" has been mentioned on a few occasions.
Steven
No need to dig it out Steven I know what I said and stick to it. If I remember rightly a number of members of this forum spoke out about the very poor behaviour and bullying displayed by a few on the science board at the time so much so you even started getting rude PM's when you posted on other threads as many folks had constructed a pretty bad image of those who posted regularly in the science forum. Believe me I consider my comments at the time very controlled when compared to the way I felt about the whole thing. It would hardly have been a suprise considering the number of posts I made previously on the subject both on the science board and in general chat pleading for change in attitudes but to no avail. You posted a thread questioning why people were not responding kindly to your input and did not like the answer you got. If that is bullying then so be it, I will wear that. Elitist???, my area's of study were physical chemistry and later animal biotechnology then education and no I don't see any other elite on this site. I would rather see people included, nurtured and encouraged in all things science rather then dismissed and abused as was frequently the case. If you would like to discuss this further I am happy to take it to PM's.
No need to dig it out Steven I know what I said and stick to it. If I remember rightly a number of members of this forum spoke out about the very poor behaviour and bullying displayed by a few on the science board at the time so much so you even started getting rude PM's when you posted on other threads as many folks had constructed a pretty bad image of those who posted regularly in the science forum. Believe me I consider my comments at the time very controlled when compared to the way I felt about the whole thing. It would hardly have been a suprise considering the number of posts I made previously on the subject both on the science board and in general chat pleading for change in attitudes but to no avail. You posted a thread questioning why people were not responding kindly to your input and did not like the answer you got. If that is bullying then so be it, I will wear that. Elitist???, my area's of study were physical chemistry and later animal biotechnology then education and no I don't see any other elite on this site. I would rather see people included, nurtured and encouraged in all things science rather then dismissed and abused as was frequently the case. If you would like to discuss this further I am happy to take it to PM's.
Mark
If you think a remark involving "chronic masturbation habits" is a measured or classy response, I can assure you it is nothing more than a highly offensive and cheap shot. In the same thread you suggested I was a troll.
I find it quite hypocritical that there are people with a holier than thou attitude who criticize others, yet behave in a far more disagreeable manner.
The fact is there has only been one individual who still posts in Science forum who has a history of being offensive and only does so to hide his own ignorance. If you wanted to perform a service you could could have sent that individual a PM. Instead by going public and not naming names everyone is tarred with the same brush. If you want to discuss this individual further I'm prepared to take it offline.
There is another issue to the Science forum bashing.
The idea that bad behaviour is endemic to the Science forum and somehow only confined to the "Scientists" is a fabrication. It seems that those "non scientists" who push there own private agendas, use the Science forum as a platform to spread misinformation, or worse still enter the Science forum to taunt those who know more than they do seem to be totally immune to criticism.
Yet when these "non scientists" are taken to task they are perceived as being the victims. In fact I suspected there was a lot of support for these individuals to stick it up those "smart arses" and that formed the basis of my thread. The response incidentally was very much as I expected.
Although I am, and have been, a member of many online communities, I am still learning who's who in the zoo on IIS, so I think I can truthfully say that I am yet to form any prejudices about people. But I am starting to form an opinion about general conduct.
I wonder how many threads on IIS are resolved not by accurate factual advice, or dispassionate discussion of pros and cons, but rather by how often an opinion is stated or perhaps even how forcefully?
In car forums that I've frequented, I've come across behaviour that was positively tribal. Behaviour is not as clear cut here, but there does seem to be some received wisdom at work.
Perhaps the forcefullness of some opinions comes across as bullying on occasion? Whether or not it fits the bullying definition, the effect can be the same in that open discussion is suppressed.
Last edited by Astro_Bot; 31-07-2012 at 01:58 PM.
Reason: Spelling
You make a good point RG when posing the question as to the difference between factual advice and opinions.
I enjoy the forums, the discussions, the information and the generally refreshingly open banter between members. However, I have certainly come to the conclusion that many members are confusing the difference between advice and opinions. When replying to a request for advice, too often I see opinions proffered in response. Too often there is no context to enable an informed judgement of that opinion. But not in all cases, as there are members who will quite clearly subtitle their response as an opinion with some context which is fine.
Properly founded advice and how to provide it is a whole topic in itself, perhaps for another discussion outside this thread.
The angagonist is obviously scared of this particular respondant - so they should be - I've met him, he's big and ugly too, with a keyboard to match, .
Oi, You talking bout me...
On a serious note though, I totally agree with the sentiment here. I was on the receiving end of a tyrade from a "know it all" and basically stopped visiting the forum in question. Pity but I've got better things to do than waste my time dealing with this sort of stuff.
The one thing astronomy should teach us all is absolute humility... but I guess the seeing has never been particularly good for the perps..
I like win/win where ever I can get it, whether I agree with a point of view or not and I admire your guts in naming it up, BULLYING.
I'am also on street commodores, just commodores and calais turbo and will say that some of these guys need to harden up, some come across as queens needed to be wrapped in cotton wool and its a wonder how they survive in society.
I do agree there are some posts which can go a bit far, and alot of posts which are worded in away which is attacking and some that are just smartarse remarks.
So the poster thinks your a idiot and doesn't like you, why care? does everyone have to like you? does everyone have to agree with you? does everyone have to be your friend? does your advise have to be the only right option?
Personally i think there's a lot of idiots on here and i know alot of people think i'am an idiot as well. I don't loose any sleep on it and know there will always be people i clash with and simply just don't get along with. It's nature and if we were all friends then the useful advise would suck, because people would just back the idiot whos wrong to be nice. Its difference of opinion, advise and ideas that build the most useful threads.
Anyhow your also welcome to say Jay your full of it, cause i really don't give a care.
P.S. Bite me hard enough ill rip your head off and leave you crying
and don't want it to go the same way.
!
) I had, we did by PM. It's a much better way.
.
