Cost of Electricity

[marki]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Terrible state of affairs I know and when we consider that 1.3 Billion people on Earth have NO power at all...hurumph! we should be complaining, it's a travesty I say...

Mike

I don't understand your logic here???? People are suffering so we must suffer for being more industrious??? 1st world countries send billions in aid to 3rd world countries each year (gov't and aid agencies) yet all that seems to occur is the installation of one tinpot dictator after another who rips off all the aid and kills large numbers of the general population. Like I said, totally confused by your post on this thread and its relevance to the topic. Prices are rising and it needs to be discussed as to why that is happening and the effect it has on everybody concerned. Could it be due to careless governing by the powers that be??? Thats why we live in a democracy, we can move the offending party on. The more expensive it gets to buy basic things like power and water etc the less likely 3rd world countries are going to be able to share in our wealth. People will not be able to donate to charities that try to service these countries and the technology will become totally out of reach (its not just the unit cost that will increase). How does that help anybody???

Mark

[AndrewJ]

Just to take a different slant on this.
Reducing consumption doesnt always help overall,
as the utilities will ( and are ) just jack up
the underlying supply charges
so you pay more even if you use NO electricity.
I disagree with the earlier "greedy shareholders" comment,
as like it or not, the govt privatised the system,
and businesses are there to make a profit.
That said, I reckon the comment re keeping it in govt hands
has "some" merit, as overall costs may not have been reduced,
but you only had one management chain
who were responsible for everything
and they actually trained their own staff/apprentices
in quantities that meant we didnt have to import skilled people.
It would be interesting to see how much management and overheads
cost before and after privatisation.

The current system is designed to maximise up front profit
and let someone else do all the "less popular" processes like
maintenace and training.

Andrew

[Exfso (Peter)]

The cost here in Adelaide have definitely gone through the roof since privatisation. We were told it would be cheaper, what a croc! since privatisation it has damn near trippled in price, those responsible for selling this to private companies should be strung up by the family jewels. I have gas hot water and cooking and still the cost of electricity is going up, so is gas and water for that matter, where will it end really. Luckily I get enough back from my solar to pay for the gas as well. I also have switches that turn off all my appliances when not in use, so I dont even have standby on things like TV, stereo HIFI etc. I have worked out that my average daily consumption, taking into account the solar has now dropped from the previous 21kwh to around 15kwh and that is as low as I can get it without moving out and living in a tent. I used to have a fridge plus separate freezer, now no freezer all downlights are low voltage, high efficiency lamps where used, so have done all the right things, but it never seems to be enough. When I go to bed at night, the place is virtually blacked out, only things on are fridge, alarm clock and monitored alarm.

[TrevorW]

What are power companies going to do when no one uses that power because it's too expensive

????

Plain and simple we are being screwed, in WA they split a Govt utility to semi privatize the operation and costs have risen over 50% is the last 3 years

Look at water costs consumers in general use around 10% of total water consumption the rest is wasted by business, the worst offender being the mining industry

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

Having lived off the grid before, it's kind of ingrained in me to conserve energy.
We don't have a dryer or a dishwasher. Lights are never left on in unoccupied rooms. The computer is on just about all the time (surprise surprise) as is the router. The telly is only on a couple of hours a week at the most.
Our hot water svc is a small one, so it doesn't take long to reheat. I truly think those big units are a false economy. They hold so much water that they are constantly chewing the power trying to heat it up.

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

I know where my power is going, I've got a datacentre in my garage that chews up 6KW a day.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by marki

I don't understand your logic here???? <snip> How does that help anybody???

Mark

..........

[Peter.M]

Originally Posted by Hagar

It would serve you better to appear a little more inteligent if you just read the title of the thread and the opening comments and kept your conversation at least in this country.

Im not sure this makes sense, how is appearing more intelligent going to serve Mike?

On a side note, It would serve you better to spell intelligent correctly.

[tornado33]

I understand that people who installed solar panels get a very generous tarriff paid for whatever they return to the grid. Sadly, that should never have been started as it is unsustainable, and to that end governments have put a stop to it, the NSW O farrel government stopped it.

They are under contractual obligations to keep paying those who installed panels before the cut off dates. O farrel was going to cut it back across the board but on legal advice is not cutting back what existing solar panel owners get.

Unfortunately, they are getting their extremeny cheap power at everyone else's expense. Governments dont want to admit that one reason power is skyrocketing so much is that we are paying for solar panel owners. This is those of us who could not afford to install panels, or those in flats/units who dont have access to the sun on a rooftop, or those who rent. The tarriff paid for putting power back into the grid should have been the same as taking it, eg if it is 20 cents/kwh to use it, it should be 20 cents/kwh to put it back in.

I simply refuse to believe the reason for costlier power is maintaining the grid. Power is like any product. The more that is made, the cheaper per unit it should be to make. If a car was hand made it would cost many times what it does if mass produced.

On the "old days" of strongly unionized workplaces a bloke I knew who did his apprenticeship in the power stations sait it was a real bludge, no one worked hard yet power was dirt cheap compared to what it is today with everyone working their guts out. The massive Bayswater and Eraring power stations were built yet power did not skyrocket to pay for them. No new very large scale stations have been built in recent years yet power is skyrocketing. It cant be infrastructure costs. Modern power grids require less personell to operate as they rely more on automation and remote control. A modern substation would be more efficient to operate and should require less maintainence.

We have a huge abundance of coal and now, natural gas, yet instead of paying the cost of getting it out of the ground and to us, we have to pay the market rate that overseas will pay. Thats a reason that our energy reserves should be fully nationalized NOT run by non government companies. If that were the case we would be paying a lot less, as we used to in the goold old days when power WAS nationalized.

All energy supplies should be nationalized, and supplied to us on a cost price basis, the government should be running the show with the objective of providing the most cost effective energy to us possible.

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Must be cloudy everyone is bored again

[Hagar (Doug)]

Originally Posted by tornado33

I understand that people who installed solar panels get a very generous tarriff paid for whatever they return to the grid. Sadly, that should never have been started as it is unsustainable, and to that end governments have put a stop to it, the NSW O farrel government stopped it.

They are under contractual obligations to keep paying those who installed panels before the cut off dates. O farrel was going to cut it back across the board but on legal advice is not cutting back what existing solar panel owners get.

Unfortunately, they are getting their extremeny cheap power at everyone else's expense. Governments dont want to admit that one reason power is skyrocketing so much is that we are paying for solar panel owners. This is those of us who could not afford to install panels, or those in flats/units who dont have access to the sun on a rooftop, or those who rent. The tarriff paid for putting power back into the grid should have been the same as taking it, eg if it is 20 cents/kwh to use it, it should be 20 cents/kwh to put it back in.

I simply refuse to believe the reason for costlier power is maintaining the grid. Power is like any product. The more that is made, the cheaper per unit it should be to make. If a car was hand made it would cost many times what it does if mass produced.

On the "old days" of strongly unionized workplaces a bloke I knew who did his apprenticeship in the power stations sait it was a real bludge, no one worked hard yet power was dirt cheap compared to what it is today with everyone working their guts out. The massive Bayswater and Eraring power stations were built yet power did not skyrocket to pay for them. No new very large scale stations have been built in recent years yet power is skyrocketing. It cant be infrastructure costs. Modern power grids require less personell to operate as they rely more on automation and remote control. A modern substation would be more efficient to operate and should require less maintainence.

We have a huge abundance of coal and now, natural gas, yet instead of paying the cost of getting it out of the ground and to us, we have to pay the market rate that overseas will pay. Thats a reason that our energy reserves should be fully nationalized NOT run by non government companies. If that were the case we would be paying a lot less, as we used to in the goold old days when power WAS nationalized.

All energy supplies should be nationalized, and supplied to us on a cost price basis, the government should be running the show with the objective of providing the most cost effective energy to us possible.

In the old days of the SECV life was quite a bit slower and electricity was much cheaper. Forward planning was the normal and infrastructure was well maintained. With privatisation came the loss of skilled employees and share holder returns to worry about so inevitably up went the cost of electricity. Forward planning was replaced with crash repairs, trained staff were replaced with hire staff and profit became the benchmark.

Remove the huge profits and electricity would be a lot cheaper but this will never happen again so get used to paying more.

[PCH (Paul)]

Dan,

on a lighter note - you're not helping the cause at all here matey. You just need to sit down quietly with your wife and watch 'Dances With Wolves' together. At the time when Kev C is trudging through the forest with the Indians, point out how the pregnant Indian lady just gives birth there and then on the march. She stops for a minute or two, does the honours, picks up the bub and continues the march to the next camp. Today's women need to have the old ways pointed out to them, don't you think. It gives them more character.

And also, - what's this you say? YOU wash the clothes in cold water ! Oh dear oh dear, whatever happened to washing the clothes being women's work mate.

So there's a couple of things you could be pointing out to the missus. I'd say you probably have to pick your moment. But I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to see her reaction when you mention these things. Probably thank you for it actually. Possibly with a great big frying pan though, so be prepared to move quickly if necessary.

Oh ****, I just heard the wife's car pull up in the driveway, and I haven't got the tea on yet. Gotta go !

Originally Posted by swannies1983

I have argued with with my wife for using the dryer regularly, even in summer , but I can only say so much to a pregnant mum .

Heaters are another thing. I just say wear more clothes or bring in the blanket from the bedroom. Again, try telling that to someone who's pregnant with a toddler.

Hot water service is electric but it has an off-peak setting. I always set the timer of our dishwasher to run after midnight. I use cold water when washing clothes and I very, very rarely use the dryer.

[Peter.M]

I am sorry for my remarks Hagar, but I can see Mikes point of view and I didn't like how you dismissed it. Power prices are getting higher, that is not in dispute. Everyone who can read this is paying the power bill still, maby at the expense of a few luxuries. People in other countries don't get the basics. Mikes comment gave this thread a little perspective.

And I dont usually call people up on simple spelling errors or grammar, but when you essentially call someone an idiot I think you need to get it right for people to take you seriously.

[Poita (Peter)]

I average 12.5kw per day, with 5 people in the house. What are you guys running?
I don't have a TV though, or a dishwasher or a dryer, a PC is on nearly 24/7 but a while ago I replaced it with a low power Intel Atom server.

I do run a projector for watching movies/DVDs, an ancient electric stove, a single medium sized fridge and electric hot water, but the tank is inside which may help. I'm not particularly good with turning out lights, and we have wireless internet.
I do switch off all the transformers (phone chargers etc.) at the wall when not in use, and showers are quick (I used to be on tank water and am still in the habit I guess) but we don't make any particular effort with power.

Not sure why my power usage is *so* much lower than some of you guys.

[TrevorW]

Ok, so what do you do in a situation where you are only on one income and

a) your wife has a disability, can't work and needs the air con on all the time when the temp gets over 30 degrees

b) you do run around making sure power isn't wasted and insist that washing except undies are placed on the line to dry, the undies go in the dryer

c) have solar cells but now the Govt only wants to give you 7 cents but on charges at 20c a kwh.

use gas for hot water and cooking.

Peter we are referring to costs in Australia not what happens in the rest of the world.

You must remember the G20 produce enough food to feed the whole world but instead of undermining profits they'd rather let it be dumped and let the rest of the world starve, so it's irrelevant whether that 1.3 billion have power.

[multiweb (Marc)]

19kw/day - house of 4. Work from home though so PC up and running 10h a day. I used to do 22 to 25kw. Cut down a bit. We don't leave everything on and always turned lights off, etc, but bills have gone up 5 folds I'd say in the past 15yrs, especially since 3yrs ago. Steep climb. I don't know but my feeling is that someone is pocketing a lot of money in the process. I mean there's no such thing as free energy but c'mon. Let's be serious

[Marke (Mark)]

I agree Marc my bill has doubled in the last few yrs and not doing anything different. Whats worse I thought I would try and cut power use last winter as my bill comes in at $700 , I used 3/4 of the power from the preivios bill and the cost still came in at $700 ? how does that work ? I am trying a different provider to see what happens.

[Exfso (Peter)]

As usual we have a bit of a slanging match going on, all I wanted to get across was the incredible increase in the cost of electricity in the last 5 or so years, or since it went private. It would also be interesting to see the differences in rates in different states. I agree we should go national on this as we are all in the same boat. There is load shedding, and as Doug works in the industry, he is the best to consult on this area. But power is bought and sold across the country, why should it not be a consistent tariff between all states and not be at the whim of the power companies and state governments. It really is a bloody shambles at present.
I know we live in the supposed lucky country, but for that we are most definitely paying the price. I believe the electricity costs in Canada are amongst the cheapest in the world, even NZ across the ditch our nearest neighbor is not paying anywhere near what we pay. Or so I have been led to believe. So there are other lucky counties not being ripped off like we are. It really is a matter of corporate greed in play here, but I am sure someone will disagree on this as well. The top cats are not affected by this outrageous cost as they can afford it, I pity those on the bones of their collective bums who are struggling to make ends meet while the top cats line their wallets.
I honestly believe that if this had stayed a government run business, and not passed over to private enterprise, we would not see the monstrous increases we have seen in recent years.
Private enterprise was supposed to promote competition, what a load of old cobblers, look at the banks they are all in bed with each other like a cartel, the same applies to these mongrel power companies. They are bleeding the power industry dry.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

I was watching new inventors last year and a professor and a young scientist came on.
They had a paint they had developed which was pretty much ready to market - it was more efficient than the equivalent size solar panel, it was 1/3 the price, and it was flexible and could be applied to any surface. Its payback period was bout 7 months.

So where the hell did it go?
http://www.dyesol.com/index.php?page...iveitemlimit=2

This is the only company I could find and there's no one selling the stuff.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

You reckon the electricity mobs are ripping you off.

Try this.

We were FORCED to accept a new sewerage system here in Snake Valley. But guess what. It doesn't even take our sewerage away.

What does this lovely service cost us?
Initial 1st cost of connection: $2600
Total cost of connection: Still unknown
Annual Fee: $680 added to our rates!

Add to this the fact that they will be fitting an electric pump to our existing Septic Tanks that will cost us more in power usage to run this thing.

So, for several thousand dollars connection, $680 extra per year, and $$ extra on our Power bills, we get absolutely nothing.

Why?

Because all the Water board is doing is taking some of our water. The sewerage waste itself still stays in the Septic Tank!
Mind you, the water they take is to be pumped up to the Golf Course to water the greens!!!!

For those of you familiar with Septic Tanks, the poo stays in the 1st tank and the overflow of water goes into the 2nd tank, and when that fills it goes through an effluent system and waters the ground, which actually makes very healthy fertile land.

Well, we are now being charged those fees shown above so they can take that effluent water.
And the Septic tank still has to be pumped out every few years like usual!

This whole process was done illegally by Council and the Water Board, and is now being investigated.
1. Why are certain residents being charged to supply free water to the local Golf Course.
2. There is no evidence Scrutineers were used to check the vote count (only certain properties in the town are going on this system, and all have said they voted no at the public meeting and by ballot, but it went ahead anyway).
3. Now all the work is completed, the tenders have gone out for the work to be done (ILLEGAL. the work is already completed).

The only houses on this new system are the houses in the Main St (our street) and one other street. No-one else in town is being connected to it.
So, at my huge expense, I get to water a Golf Course!!!!!
and my power will go through the roof.

And as an encouragement award, if we fail to allow the plumbers in to carry out the work, or the electrician access to connect the pump within 18 months, then our Installation costs are to be doubled and we will be forced to connect.