It's official, we are ripped off!

[TrevorW]

What we need through sound Govt policy is that we do not end up going down the path other nations have taken to the detriment of the working man. If the Govt does this we as Australians will continue to enjoy (refer Mikes comments) the standard of living we now do.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

What we need through sound Govt policy is that we do not end up going down the path other nations have taken to the detriment of the working man. If the Govt does this we as Australians will continue to enjoy (refer Mikes comments) the standard of living we now do.

And as per the past and no matter what bleating we hear from the nay sayers, we are getting it just fine

[bmitchell82 (Brendan)]

I love my country and I think its pretty damn good over here.! yes we may be getting chaffed by astro dealers around the joint but we have ways around it.

Im with you Mike on this situation.

[Gem (Grant)]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Sorry but we need some reality checks here, seriously we need to get off our 4 bedroom double garage home, 6 cylinder car, 4WD, computer, Ipod, Iphone, restaurants, holidays, second car, piano lessons, fishing boats, jet skies, goto telescopes, CCD cameras, en-suites, water features, high speed broadband, free to air TV, shopping trollies, one person per car... high horses and slip back into reality for a moment

I envision the day when no Australian child will be without their GOTO scope....

Seriously though, we have it damn good here. I have visited 30+ countries in my life and spent 5 years in Zambia - 2 years of which in a remote village... Any place that has electricity and hot water is bloody great!!

[DavidU (Dave)]

Yes Oz is a great place to be, however as a manufacturer I lost the lot during the GFC and am still suffering it's problems.

[traveller (Bo)]

And getting back to the original post, yes, we do pay more for some goods compared with other countries, but that's more a combination of government subsidies, companies trying to protect their profits and local trading conditions. End of the day, there is no point in saving a few dollars if that means our kids will be working for $5 a hour.
Don't get me wrong, I love saving a few dollars as much as the next guy, but you can't buy good service.
Yep, we have it good here, esp when compared with the US, Europe, Asia, not to mention S. .America , Africa, which only leaves Antarctica
Bo

[bobson (Bob)]

No one disputes that Australia is great country. But based on our potential we could do much better. I think thats what the report is all about.

cheers

[Jules76 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Sure, you may be right but I just find the sort of empty negative rhetoric like the article in this thread, thrown at us, particularly lately, trying to paint a picture of gloom and woe and suggest it is tuff going in Australia, quite ridiculous and even shameful.

Mike

Agree 100%. Currently I see the retail market caught in a catch 22 because of all of this. People who can afford to spend money get sucked into the doom and gloom we constantly hear and start spending less which in turn hurts retailers. Then we hear about how retail spending is significantly down and that they are doing it tough with some having to close down, which in turn feeds into the whole doom and gloom scenario. You can't win.

[Keltik (Trevor)]

Much of the "doom and gloom" is the result of a concerted campaign by a large section of the media ( that controlled by News Ltd.) to denigrate everything the Government has done. One contributor here has decried the level of government "interference" in markets, but it should be noted that single most effective recent action in preserving the Australian standard of living was the level of Government stimulus applied to the economy, and the security provided for bank assets during the GFC. This move was roundly condemned by the Coalition, a stance supported in particular by The Australian newspaper, but without it, many thousands of jobs would have been lost and the resulting loss of confidence by lenders would have sent many Australians into mortgage repossession.
The current campaign against Government "interference" in the mining sector, in the form of a super-profits tax, is another facet of the propaganda war that would have you believe that these multibillionaire companies ( most of which have a high foreign ownership component) will simply pack up and go offshore, resulting in "doom and gloom" for ordinary Australians. This is a nonsense. The stability of this country's social system, and unrivalled infrastructure in a resource-rich nation, mean that it will always be more profitable for miners to invest here, rather than a nation which at any time might fall victim to coup or civil war. It is only fair that the huge profits enjoyed by the miners be taxed more fairly, to benefit the people whose resources they are mining.
I have never in all my 33 years here seen the country in better economic shape. Our dollar has been close to parity or better with the US currency for quite some time, making many US products affordable, and I have personally taken advantage of this a number of times ( and before you accuse me of not supporting local retailers, it was for items that I cannot get in this country). So when you read articles promoting this doom-and-gloom stuff, take some time to check the sources. "Institutes" with high-sound names like the Institute for Public Affairs, and the Murdoch press are usually behind them, and they are pure, unadulterated political propaganda, and as Mike commented earlier, ridiculous and yes, shameful. Quite how some people justify attempting to destroy the welfare of Australians in the quest for political power, and yet claim to be patriotic, escapes me.

[GrahamL]

It surprising that article makes no mention on the impact of negitive gearing on housing affordability, the one big purchase many will make in there lives is not a cheap one ,yet

The idea that residential housing needs to be a tax haven for investors seems to be so entrenched in all sides of political
thinking removing it can't even be considered .

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by casstony

One of the functions of government should be to provide a regulatory framework for various facets of the economy which encourages free enterprise but punishes fraud.

"Unfortunately our government thinks it knows better than the market" and government interference creates distortions in markets/business cycles to our detriment. An obvious example is the first home buyers grant which pushed house prices higher than they should have gone and has kept them higher for longer, the ultimate result of which is that Australian honeowners are far more indebted than they should be and far more exposed to a downturn in the economy. Who benefitted from that poilcy - banks through profits on loans and government through increased tax revenue.

Sorry but it is the free market that has caused all the financial trouble that the world has at present and a small amount of "government interference" is a nessesity to ensure that we don't keep going down this BUBBLE ECONOMY THINKING path which is unsustainable in a finite world where there are not the resources for eternal growth.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

Sorry but it is theCthat has caused all the financial trouble that the world has at present and a small amount of "government interference" is a nessesity to ensure that we don't keep going down this BUBBLE ECONOMY THINKING path which is unsustainable in a finite world where there are not the resources for eternal growth.

Not quite. It is the private banking system that was given too much lee-way. Free market is healthy. Anyway we're still doing real good downunder. Bit of debt but we'll pay it off thanks to our natural resources.

[Barrykgerdes]

There is an old axiom that states "give credit where credit is due"

The problem with the free world economies is due to "giving credit where credit is not due"

Maybe a slightly different connotation but very much to the point.

Barry

[casstony]

Originally Posted by Keltik

. One contributor here has decried the level of government "interference" in markets, but it should be noted that single most effective recent action in preserving the Australian standard of living was the level of Government stimulus applied to the economy, and the security provided for bank assets during the GFC.

Do you think the GFC has gone away? The apparent improvement in GDP was a result of stimulus (ie.borrowing) particularly in the major economies while underlying economic conditions continue to worsen, the net result of which is that we're back in the same situation as 2008 but carrying more debt.

Excessive debt levels are the immediate problem and we will not see a healthy and stable world economy until after that is addressed, either in a responsible manner(unlikely) or in an uncontrolled collapse that causes default of the debt.

Earlier in the thread Mike challenged the naysayers (ie. me ) to read a particular link. I challenge everyone else to seek out the info I highlighted in post number 7 and see what you make of it. Edit: Barry's post above gets to the crux of the problem - we have been living beyond our means.

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by multiweb

Not quite. It is the private banking system that was given too much lee-way. Free market is healthy. Anyway we're still doing real good downunder. Bit of debt but we'll pay it off thanks to our natural resources.

I think that they have become one and the same banking just markets money and commodities yes free market is healthy until the anything goes and profit at all costs attitude takes over.

You only have to look at the abuse of the live cattle and sheep trade and how the care of the animals became secondary to the almighty dollar I am not singling out any individual but it is only one example of how things can get out of hand.

The current natural resources are finite and will not last forever and some of them coal and oil for instance will have to be abandoned before they are gone as they will harm our planet and make the planet a much less hospitable place to live.

We need to move to more infinite natural resources calling them renewable is inacurate in my opinion as using solar and wind does not actually deplete them and they are currently being largely wasted and with research they can become base load our future energy needs will be a combination of sources. We should be using fossil fuels like baby food until we grow up enough to move to adult food "ie" non poluting energy.

So many overlook the social and environomental wellbeing over the economic one lets face it if the planet is unhealthy the economy will be ruined.

I agree that we are doing well in Australia but that does not mean that things will stay that way without sound management into the future whoever is leading the nation, and ideology from whichever side it comes from is harmful to our future its time we faced the truth without ideology and do what is nessasary for our future.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

Sorry but it is the free market that has caused all the financial trouble that the world has at present and a small amount of "government interference" is a nessesity to ensure that we don't keep going down this BUBBLE ECONOMY THINKING path which is unsustainable in a finite world where there are not the resources for eternal growth.

Capitalism and communism alone are both failures. A combination of both is needed where markets are allowed to function freely within certain boundaries (regulations) set by the government. Another essential component is that companies and individuals must be punished by the law if the break the rules. Unfortunately bankers and politicians have worked together to corrupt the system, watering down regulations designed to protect against the problems we're seeing today and rampant financial fraud has not been punished.

For decades governments have thought they can avoid recessions, but their interference has only accentuated the upside of the business cycle leading to bubbles in various markets. A free functioning market naturally includes periodic recessions which balance out the excesses of the previous upswing in the economy; people who took on too much debt or invested unwisely are wiped out and the economy can continue on from a healthy base; by avoiding the recession the rot is allowed to set in leading to bigger problems down the road.

[AndrewJ]

Free market is healthy.

If that was true, then why doesnt our govt open up our borders so that overseas doctors, lawyers, dentists, bankers, accountants, tradesmen, and just for fun politicians, ( ie those with relatively protected incomes ) can come here and practice "freely and without restriction" at a much lower price than we get charged currently.
Sure we may get some dodgy ones, but thats the "caveat emptor" risk for anything in a "free market".
I find it intriguing that some parts of our society ( retailers ) are forced to compete in an absolute free for all "via the net"
and others are protected.

That said
Oz is still a better place to live than most,

Andrew

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

The original article quote this about banana prices.

Why do they have to pay for farmers that are probably richer than them?"

I'm sorry, bias that again for me...

Is that a communist remark, a typo or a particularly ignorant rant about a farmer making a decent living....

We don't import bananas because if we did, there'd be diseases we don't want and then we'd produce NO bananas.

Indonesia have just told us they are not goint to allow 520,000 live cattle into there next year.
Australia will only be allowed 280,000. So there's a nice government interference that has caused real damage.

Pork, most Bacon in Australia comes from Europe and most pork meat comes from North America - BECAUSE THEY'RE SUBSIDISED by their governments.

So much for Paul Keating's 'level playing field'

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Indonesia have just told us they are not goint to allow 520,000 live cattle into there next year.
Australia will only be allowed 280,000. So there's a nice government interference that has caused real damage.

Hmm? So who was responsible for allwoing the animal abuse to continue unabatted?

If government inervention to stop animal cruelty has resulted in the country dishing out this cruelty to reduce their imports from us - too bad and congratulations to our government for doing what is right. Cattle farmers will survive quite nicely in our worlds best economy.

[traveller (Bo)]

Spot on Mike, government intervention IS necessary at times to reflect community attitude, level out the playing field and look after the sick and the vulnerable in society.
Unfortunately, our elected representatives are too busy with vested interests (unions, large companies alike), or too busy with study tours to Europe or their local massage parlours.
Of course, our very concentrated media ownership in this country does not help as their "news" are confied to gossip and D-listers.
For what it is worth, the current government is doing a bloody good job despite constant sniping by the media shock jocks, the crew led by Dr No, and the demands of the Greens and independents.
Whether you agree or disagree with the Carbon Tax, plain tobacco legislation and other landmark legislations, it's a credit to the government to negotiate and deliver policies for people in this country.
Now, lets get back to our scopes
Bo