My Recommended Beginner's Packages - Page 2

Stu Ward · #21 05-05-2011, 06:42 PM

Andrews sell the 8" goto for $999

Btw great post.
Cracking advice for the beginner

Markaus · #22 05-05-2011, 10:11 PM

Spent the evening reading away and browsing the classifieds, my only newbie concern is that I would spend some valuable dollars and be no better off than my wobbly power seeker which has been in and out of the box over the past 2 years more so out of frustration as it's hard to align, focus although I did manage to get a photo of the moon after hrs of trying to keep it steady! I also need to be mindful that I'd need to make the right choice to serve me for a good few years.

From reading the threads on the newbie recomendations I'm really thinking of the Genuine Skywatcher Black Diamond Collapsible "Go To" SynScan
8" Dobsonian...A$999. But then I just read a post whereby the full tube might be better as it can be in the future potentially mounted on an equatorial mount as an upgrade.

Is some respects it's a nice problem to have at this stage but so long as the right choice is made on purchase.

overlord (Charles) · #23 05-05-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markaus

Spent the evening reading away and browsing the classifieds, my only newbie concern is that I would spend some valuable dollars and be no better off than my wobbly power seeker which has been in and out of the box over the past 2 years more so out of frustration as it's hard to align, focus although I did manage to get a photo of the moon after hrs of trying to keep it steady! I also need to be mindful that I'd need to make the right choice to serve me for a good few years.

From reading the threads on the newbie recomendations I'm really thinking of the Genuine Skywatcher Black Diamond Collapsible "Go To" SynScan
8" Dobsonian...A$999. But then I just read a post whereby the full tube might be better as it can be in the future potentially mounted on an equatorial mount as an upgrade.

Is some respects it's a nice problem to have at this stage but so long as the right choice is made on purchase.

The trusses are certainly a recent fad. I have a feeling that the f/4.5 or f/5 trusses are not necessarily for the person who would buy the smaller scope (beginner) owing to the every-time collimation necessity. Once learned it's ok but yeah. It's portability at a price. i hate to say this, just theory of mine.

Don't wanna put anyone off but u can't really get what u want can u. my beginner scope would be f/8 6" dob due to sharpish views of planets rendered and much less need for collimation, plus potentially more portability, and a faster set-up

Cheers folks! It's the traditional solution basically. But that is changing, obviously.

barx1963 (Malcolm) · #24 05-05-2011, 11:27 PM

Markaus
The collapsible or truss style scopes are great, but as with many choices in this market, you are sacrificing aperture. At the 8-10" end the space saving is IMHO fairly minimal and anless it is essential that you need the space saving, a solid tube will get more aperture for your dollars, or save dollars that can be spent on better accessorise (eyepieces, telrad, atlases etc)
While it is true that a solid tube can be later used for imaging, I always think it is best to get the best possible gear for what you are doing now, and for visual use, aperture is what really matters.

Malcolm

Markaus · #25 06-05-2011, 07:48 AM

thanks Malcolm,

my goals are;

1) observing, both planets and if possible further afield albeit deep space can come later with an upgrade
2) migration path for the future
3) ability to connect a webcam and PC
4) GOTO (GPS) I love the idea of the Meade system whereby you can also get comentary of the object in view. i see this as a wonderful learning experience!
5) Backyard viewing (mainly) although theres a potentially good spot about 5 mins away to setup with low light polution
6) enjoyment for friends/family by way of either direct viewing with the scope or remote via webcam connected to scope and to one of my "many PCs" I would possibly dedicate one for this hobby
7) As ive had a basic scope for 2 years this is the next step

last but not least, i never tend to do things half cocked, and i always try to avoid with any purchase thinking "i wish i had got the other one" so i tend to spend a bit extra if necessary to get what i want. ( and I maintain that if you are going to do it then its worth doing it properly)

THKS

Mark

Jeeps (Sam) · #26 06-05-2011, 11:26 AM

As a beginner last year, the hardest part was choosing the telescope because you just don't know what's out there unless you do some serious research. When i have friends over and i ask "want to look a the moon or a planet with my telescope?" they are shocked when i bring out the R2D2 looking dob because a telescope in their mind must be a refractor looking telescope. They always say "when you said telescope i thought you meant a telescope!" LOL Anyway after explaining how the truss dob works and after looking into the eyepiece they appreciate the dob.

When i was looking to purchase last year, GO-TO dobs were only just coming out and were more expensive than they are now. If i were to be in the same predicament this year i would have gone with a smaller 8" go-to rather than my 10" manual dob simply for the tracking ability. I don't regret buying the 10" dob as i've learned more about the sky than i could have imagined however after buying it i found out about things like collimation, eyepieces, mirror cooling & dew... what a nightmare! However, i have found that i hardly ever need to collimate even though i collapse the scope after every session ( i havn't collimated at all this year). Mirror cooling hasn't affected me too much as i leave the scope under the carport or back deck if i plan to go out but dew has affected me a few times.

As as for eyepieces, i was amazed with what the standard ones provided but i have recently purchased my first premium - a Pentax XW 10mm and i plan to get a Televue 24mm panoptic soon. Wideviews make it much easier with manual scopes! Though i'm open to suggestions

The problem with a lot of beginners is that they think they can spend $100-$200 on a complete setup and get great views. Beginners have so many choices these days but i agree that you really need to spend about $500 minimum when buying new to get something that isn't going to disappoint and make you lose interest.

And about the whole collimation thing, telling a beginner that they need to collimate everytime they use the scope will just scare them away from dobs. I don't think you need to collimate modern dobs regularly hardly at all! At least not mine

cheers

Stu Ward · #27 07-05-2011, 08:43 AM

Whilst you may not have to collimate everytime you use, its always best practice to at least check
It would be such a waste of a viewing session if it was not collimated, for the time it takes to do.

Stu

bmitchell82 (Brendan) · #28 13-05-2011, 01:14 PM

ill put my 2c in, collimation every time is pretty much essential, even if you do nothing. Also the accuracy of your collimation tools is a massive point if your collimating with a laser sausage (GSO laser collimators)... well its going to be pretty much spot on ever time... so to speak.

You start looking at passive auto collimators (which may i add are very easy to use) and you will see that moving your telescope from under the patio to out on the lawn will alter it slightly. possibly not enough for visual to see, but talking Astrophotography 100% it will!

Chirs as for your astrophotography, well.... it depends on what your vision and reality alignment is like! To get reasonably good shots not just happy snaps starting with absolutely nothing ide say somewhere around 4-5k. some people pipe dream that 1500 dollars will give them APOD quality images.

but alass.

Things to think of when looking at AP

Mount- absolute minimum EQ6Pro/NEQ6
decent aperature/quality scope - Dob - 8" and up, 90mm up for refractors
Modifications eg, better focuser, better dove tails
Rings
Laptop - I use a eeepc 1000HD, 900mHz celron.. doesn't need to be a beast...
Software - Maxim DL, Nebulosity are 2 decent packages you pay for what you get
Correctors(field flattners)
power supplies- 80-100a-h is what you should get, and power supplies 8A does the trick
camera - contentious point... if i had my time again, don't bother with the dSLR, to much noise and alot of frustration. a small Cooled CCD sensor will kick you off. Decent data to work with and much better returns

My current kit is sitting about 5500 Though i have made alot of things by hand so add a good 1500 to that. on the up side it is actually pumping out high quality images with great resolution. look at my website if you want to see what i have and what its producing. if you want ask questions about it

The other thing is experience... you can only put a time price on that

im pushing 2.1/2 years and still know very little!

CChelle (Michelle) · #29 15-05-2011, 11:03 AM

Wow! This is EXACTLY what I joined the forum for. I had done some research and found that most helpful experts reccommend and 8" dob to a beginner. However, as the sites I'd been to were not Australian, the most reccommended brand was Orion. Can anyone tell me about the Skywatcher and Saxon brands. Mostly I just want to know if they're good or not. I've heard some good stuff about Skywatcher but what about Saxon? How does it compare? Also, how much better of would I be 10" Dob? Portability is not an issue. I live in the boon docks so I wouldn't be going anywhere other than my back paddock and my husband has offered to make me a stand on castors for wheeling the whole set up in and out of the garage. The upside of living in a place that is isolated from star clubs etc is that I have dark skys to look at.

Screwdriverone (Chris) · #30 15-05-2011, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CChelle

Wow! This is EXACTLY what I joined the forum for. I had done some research and found that most helpful experts reccommend and 8" dob to a beginner. However, as the sites I'd been to were not Australian, the most reccommended brand was Orion. Can anyone tell me about the Skywatcher and Saxon brands. Mostly I just want to know if they're good or not. I've heard some good stuff about Skywatcher but what about Saxon? How does it compare? Also, how much better of would I be 10" Dob? Portability is not an issue. I live in the boon docks so I wouldn't be going anywhere other than my back paddock and my husband has offered to make me a stand on castors for wheeling the whole set up in and out of the garage. The upside of living in a place that is isolated from star clubs etc is that I have dark skys to look at.

Hi Michelle,

Welcome to IIS

I am glad this post was of help. Skywatcher and Saxon are essentially the same scope, made by Synta and distributed by Tasco here in Australia. I prefer the look and feel of the Skywatcher brand over the Saxon, however.

A 10" dob has a slight but noticeable advantage in size and light gathering power over the 8" but is larger and therefore more heavy / bulky. However, if it is mounted on a caster board then this wouldnt be much of an issue.

As for Orion, these are a quite nice brand, very similar to Skywatcher, but generally more expensive in comparison when you sit say a 10" beside a Skywatcher 10".

With Dark skies, an 8 inch scope would perform like a 10" or 12" scope from the suburbs.

Regards

Chris

bmitchell82 (Brendan) · #31 15-05-2011, 03:08 PM

Like chris has already said, the difference of a 10 to a 8 is a bit noticeable. back when i first started i had my 10" and a friend had his 8" both skywatcher dobsonians mounted up on EQ6pro german equatorial mounts GEM's using a 20mm Meade series 5000 eye piece the difference was the images where brighter, and being brighter meant that i could appreciably see more in galaxies, faint nebula. Also chirs is right with saying that a 8" in the country will preform like a 10" in the city. but a 10" i the country will take some big bounds on a 8 in the country!

The flame nebula is a good one to test out on, as its right on the edge of visibility with these scopes, In my 10" i can see it pretty good, where as the 8" i am struggling.

As for the difference between saxon and skywatcher, its like skywatchers poor brother. Not that they are bad.... but they are not made exactly the same. I would rank GSO and Saxon on the same level with the SW slightly ahead. at the end of the day its just the difference in build quality as the mirrors are on par. I could go into information over load for you but its counter productive. I wouldn't be swayed either buy all the extra goodies they throw at you, as most will tell you the kit that you get with the scope is great for the first 6 months until you get your feet wet, then you will upgrade your eye pieces to suite your viewing pleasures. high mag, wide fields, multi element eye pieces and the like.

Good luck and don't be afraid to ask many questions

oh and welcome to the forum

Brendan

overlord (Charles) · #32 15-05-2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CChelle

Wow! This is EXACTLY what I joined the forum for. I had done some research and found that most helpful experts reccommend and 8" dob to a beginner. However, as the sites I'd been to were not Australian, the most reccommended brand was Orion. Can anyone tell me about the Skywatcher and Saxon brands. Mostly I just want to know if they're good or not. I've heard some good stuff about Skywatcher but what about Saxon? How does it compare? Also, how much better of would I be 10" Dob? Portability is not an issue. I live in the boon docks so I wouldn't be going anywhere other than my back paddock and my husband has offered to make me a stand on castors for wheeling the whole set up in and out of the garage. The upside of living in a place that is isolated from star clubs etc is that I have dark skys to look at.

Skywatcher IS Saxon. : ) Saxon is the Aussie re-branding, specializing in slightly different scopes.

Well, I have an 8" f/5 Saxon from 2003. I had never heard of it before when I got it but it turned out to be of exceptional quality for its era. But They are made even better now, smoother too. I have used this to draw and map and all the planets except for Uranus and Pluto which are tiny little blank specs. In fact I'm not sure if it was Pluto but it could have been!

Yes excellent. You might want to use larger wheels. Castors might knock out the collimation if it goes bump bump bump de-bump.

Hell put it on a lawnmower like me, and get a 10" instead since it will be on wheels. : ) YES you need to put any 8" on wheels (unless it's truss), or it's very annoying to take out! VERY annoying! Primal enthusiasm does not last forever and is not always sufficient to overcome the 'weight barrier' of the scope. Sometimes you need to roll it out quick before it starts raining. I love doing that. Nice clouds in front of the moon!

CChelle (Michelle) · #33 16-05-2011, 06:44 PM

Thanks, all. That's been a big help. I've decided to go for a 10" as I do like looking at nebula and such. My husband likes the idea of the lawn mower and wants to know how you go about attaching it.
I want to know what your neighbours think about scooting out of the garage with a great big dob on a lownmower, just before rain. lol

Suzy · #34 16-05-2011, 10:10 PM

Hi Michelle,

I had my old 6" dob sitting on castor wheels and it worked like a dream. I like the long tension handles on the Saxon's as they enable me to drag it around on the wheels. My 10" is also on wheels. Castors alone, I don't think is such a good choice for such a large dob as a 10". The scope is quite heavy so you really need bigger wheels with some shock absorbency. Having said that, I still have not attached my pneumatic wheels on and am still using normal large wheels and it works fine, just have to be more careful and take it steady over the bumps.

I have attached a wooden frame (2 pieces) under the base (the frame protrudes a bit from under the base so the wheels sit either side of the base (not hidden under the base), and attached to it are two large wheels (pneumatic wheels are better) and two castor wheels. Again, I pull it around using the tension handles. I like having the castor wheels along with the larger wheels as I can move the the scope around better. Bunnings have trolleys for only $20 and many people use this as a way to move the scope around, then you strap it on to the trolley using those expandable tie thingies. I bought the trolley just to take the pneumatic wheels off it to attach to the base of my scope- their normally quite expensive so for $20 it was a bargain. When you drag the scope around, just take care over bumps, pavers etc, nice and slow.

Jeeps (Sam) · #35 17-05-2011, 10:53 AM

I use a dedicated hand trolley for my 10" Skywatcher. I think i paid about $30 from Repco. I went to clark rubber, bought some strips of foam and fixed it to the trolley all over the place so as to not scratch the scope. I do not strap the scope to the trolley as the Skywatcher comes with 2 big knobs/handles to raise and lower the trusses of the dob. If you look at this picture you can kind of see the knobs. They're just below and to the left of the focuser:

http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/p...Trolley001.jpg

To tip the trolley back/up to move the scope, on both sides I put my forefingers on the little knobs and ease the scope back so it's flush against the trolley then put my thumbs behind the side rail of the trolley and pull the whole lot back. Once it's back and sittng on it's wheels in a balanced position, i put one hand on the top rail to control the trolley and keep one hand on the knob/side rail to keep the scope flush against the trolley. Using this method i go up and down my stair no problems and the scope 'falls into' the trolley and stays there.

I would suggest that you keep the tyres pumped up a little bit but not firm, this takes some shock out of the trolley. If they are pumped up firm the trolley will bounce and shock the scope to no end... and you'll HAVE to collimate

The quality of the Skywatcher black diamond dobs is superb. I would even go as far to say they're a premium scope.

cheers

dj gravelrash (Dino) · #36 11-10-2011, 08:39 PM

What a cracking thread. You are all monuments to humanity lol. A lil love for us annoying newbies is appreciated and seriously wont be forgotten. Cheers again--dj

Blakout (Neil) · #37 03-11-2011, 11:37 PM

Awesome thread , just what I needed to know to get some gear for my new Skywatcher 8 inch DOB .

Blakout (Neil) · #38 04-11-2011, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suzy

Fabulous idea Chris!
And a very nice package too.

Just one thing I'm not sure of..
That 7mm ep and 3x barlow suggestion of yours.
The ones that come with the scope are a 10 & 25, sometimes a 15mm. Well, with a 3x barlow using it on a 7mm ep it goes beyond both the practical (300x mag) and theoretical (480x mag) limit of the scopes ability- bringing the 7mm eyepiece to 515x mag

.
My suggestion is to replace the 7mm with a 15mm and replace the 3x barlow with a 2x barlow.

If it was a 2x barlow, you can magnify the 15mm down to 7mm. That's a nice sweet spot on planets at the focal length of 1200mm which those 8 inch dobs are. And the 10mm can come down to 5mm barlowed.

Just my 2c worth.

What 15mm would you recommend as I cant find the Super Plossle in 15 mm , sorry for asking stupid questions but Im new and havnt got a clue whats what .

Screwdriverone (Chris) · #39 04-11-2011, 04:21 PM

Hey Blakout,

Check out Andrews Comms here http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

On the Skywatcher page, Skywatcher Plossls are at the bottom of the page and are $29 each. Quite acceptable eyepieces, good bang for your buck. Nearest size is 12.5mm or 17mm, also on the Guan Sheng page is a 15mm for $29 also, the Andrews ED ones are quite special too, I have two of these ED ones and use them all the time.

Cheers

Chris

Blakout (Neil) · #40 04-11-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screwdriverone

Hey Blakout,

Check out Andrews Comms here http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

On the Skywatcher page, Skywatcher Plossls are at the bottom of the page and are $29 each. Quite acceptable eyepieces, good bang for your buck. Nearest size is 12.5mm or 17mm, also on the Guan Sheng page is a 15mm for $29 also, the Andrews ED ones are quite special too, I have two of these ED ones and use them all the time.

Cheers

Chris

Thanks Chris , should I go the 12.5 or the 17 ? or dosnt it matter ?

Cheers