Nasa astronauts are crackpots

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

There are questions that need to be answered when skilled observers of aircraft see something they cannot explain. People in the Apollo program often had science or mathematics backgrounds, All the Apollo astronauts had imput into the designs and systems of the vehicles and methods. Maybe some of them are mad, and that should not be discounted. Maybe just maybe what they say is true. I don't know I was not there.

Having been in astronomy for a long time I cannot ever say that I have seen something that I could not explain, so I find it hard to understand those that claim they have seen UFO's. However, that does not mean they do not exist. It is though more likely that the tyranny of distance is prohibitive of visitations. One day no doubt perhaps thousands of years from now we may find out for sure.

Personally I am ready to be told one way or the other if we are being visited right now.

Good reply, Paul.

I'm in the same boat as you....I've been in astronomy for a very long time and have yet to actually see anything (flying) I can't find an explanation for. However, I have seen crop circles and alleged UFO landing sites. After looking at them, I can see where many of the people who comment on these phenomenon come from. I've seen some rather strange things that would be almost impossible to explain if you weren't willing to consider the possibilities. I can also see where people are coming from when they report seeing a UFO. For what is the strictest definition of the word...Unidentified Flying Object. They can't identify it, so that's what it is. Doesn't mean it's not something rather prosaic, but it also could be the real deal as well.

In so far as the usual reply about the "tyranny of distance" being the biggest obstacle to them being here, that is a rather weak point for argument considering it's only coming from our own limited technological perspective, but it is a valid assumption when coming from that perspective. Have a look at what our technology was like at the turn of last Century. Ask any scientist of the day could we actually ever fly to the Moon. I think you know what answer you would get. Most didn't even believe it was possible to fly, especially with heavier than air devices. Three years later, two bicycle mechanics proved them all wrong. Heck, they were getting that same answer almost right up until they actually did it....1956 was the last time any noted scientist actually dismissed the idea. You see where I getting at with all of this....we don't even know what we're going to have, technologically speaking, in 50, 100 or 200 years time. Let alone 1000 or more years, and as history has so well taught us much of the speculation or dismissal of what might be has proven to be wide of the mark. In all cases, those things we thought we'd never have, or have done, usually ended up happening much sooner than was expected (or unexpected, as the case may be).

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

As astronomers, we're not really equipped to see these UFOs are we?
We often have scopes that have a FOV of less than 1degree.
If we aren't looking into that, we're looking into a laptop screen or a star chart - how much time do we spend looking up?
And when it is a bit cloudy, how many of us are out there - not a lot I'd guess.
When it is a bit moony or LP from town is bad? Seeing is bad? we're not there are we?

Overall, I'd lay odds a Taxi driver would spend more time (than us) looking at the sky while having a smoke waiting for his next fare.
I'll bet in reality we're more likely to not see something even if it was there, we're too involved with something else.

[renormalised (Carl)]

True, Jennifer. An UFO would have to hover right in front of your scope before you even saw it

That's another furphy about it all....the "Astronomers are looking at the sky all the time. Surely they'd be the ones to see an UFO before anyone else". Even astronomers fall for and promulgate that one. It's a load of rubbish. Most professional astronomers spend their observing in front of computer screens and then reducing that data at a later date. 95% have never even looked through a telescope, visually. Many amateurs have a better knowledge of the night sky than most professionals, and as you have mentioned even the amateurs aren't always using "mark1 eyeball" and having a look.

Actually, many astronomers would be considered rather poor observers of sky phenomena, whether it's natural or not.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Let's also throw this into the equation. Astronauts of the 50's and early 60's were experiencing environments somewhat new to humans. Super and hypersonic ascent and re-entry speeds play all sorts of atmospheric ionisation tricks at these speeds and altitudes. Liquids do some pretty funky things in zero-g, super cold environments too. Remember Glenn's "pretty fireflies"?

"Unidentified" means just that. I can't seem to recall any astronaut talking about funny green men - and none would. Their place in the programme depends on their level-headedness.

[renormalised (Carl)]

They could've been green....if the capsules started to tumble wildly and they'd just eaten

[joe_smith]

I have been interested in UFO since I was a kid and many of the early UFO books hinted at Astronauts having knowledge of UFO's and they were silent on the subject. This silence to the sceptics was the proof they used, to say it was a false idea, they had no personal experience with UFO's. But look now some are saying they have had experience’s with some form of alien contact. Now this is a good turning point for the so called sceptics. Here we have the proof from the horses mouth so to speak, That its true!! there is more to the subject then what’s generally known. More and more skilled observers are coming forward, some of these people we put our lives in their hands, they are also telling of their experiences. Take a look at the doco “I know what I saw” to see the full story.

When the most famous of Astronauts makes a quote like this ,with close to tears in his eyes we have better take note "Breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers" why would he say this?? and what is he referring to?? Or how about Astronaut Edgar Mitchell confesses UFOs exist. He sates disclosure of the UFO story has already begun the truth is already being released all you have to do is open your eyes and see for yourself its there. Most people don’t care about the world or universe they live in ,they are more interested in facebook, x-factor and all of the other mind numbing trash we deal with 24/7. That’s how secrets are kept today, keep the human herd feed on fear and trash media. But most of all keep them away from dreaming their own ideas, their own hopes and wishes. Keep them jumping for the prize of a better life we all dream we will get one day, knowing full well that the 1%'s will never allow it.

Science today is not the science of yesterday its not like the time of Newton, Pastor, Galileo or Darwin. These people were curious about the world we live in, they were lone adventures looking for how they fit in the universe. They were alone against the system they were a 1 man army for the truth. Today's science institution is more like a business institution, and it wants a return on the money invested in the science they fund. This funding and profit motive behind the field of science is open to hidden/personal agendas and corruption and lies. The meaning of this is, to be a scientist in today’s science institution means you play the game by their rules, if you want a slice of the funding pie. You do this whether or not you believe in anything you have to say is true and false, The institution says what’s true and false not the scientists.

Just like the Astronauts that have come forward to say “hang on our world view is not like we think it is - its not like we are being told”. Also remember this, there are many, many scientists that also disagree with the science institution's view of our world a view that forced on us, a view that my be false and they full well know it.

The question of “Where did we come from, why are we here, and where are we going?” is nowhere near answered, not even close to any hard core proof. So to upset the hard core Science people, what gives you the right to say what is true and what is not. What makes you king of the universe who gives you the right and power to push your version science as the only truth.... I’m sorry I forgot, its the people paying you to say it. its the money making, profit driven science institution who just happen to be in the 1% club. Just my view of it

[xelasnave]

Science is science and people are peope no need to confuse the two.

I spend an unhealthy amount of time under the stars.. all night most nights ..and a lot of time outside ...never seen anything that could not be explained.

I have seen things that looked very strange until I worked out what optical game was being played on my vission.

A reflection from a plan thru a cloud one time had me re thinking my views on ufo,s but after a while I could work out all normal here...I could see such could be seen by others who think they have witnessed ET flying by ...and some like the attention of relating stories that make them the center of attention.

Folk should remeber just because something can not be readily explained that does not give licience to invent a reality to substitue for something that is without answer at the moment...

alex

[PeterM]

Ditto to what Alex said.
It's a stretch that amateur astronomers don't recognise when something different happens in the sky with the naked eye, heck we see meteors, satellites, just a flicker from airplane in the distance, a high beam light reflecting of fog in the distance etc, etc. Especially when amateurs know the sky. I remember reading once that if more people knew about astronomy there would be less UFO reports. As there are now a gazillion people with mobile phone cameras out there, so where is the increase in UFO picks, seems there are less than ever. My god we should be filming the invasion by now.

PeterM

[pmrid (Peter)]

I like to test ideas by looking at them backwards. If there have been alien visits to earth, encounters between aircraft and alien craft, squadrons and flotillas of alien craft over this city or that, then we have to assume that those visiting aliens observed us more or less as we are - a species with a mastery of materials, construction, flight, telecommunications and so on and so on. Not a bunch of amoeba crawling about on a cave floor.
Why, then, in all those encounters, if you accept for a moment that they were indeed encounters, has there never been any recorded communication, or attempt at communication? In all of those encounters, why has there never been the equivalent of a decent photo-stop, pee break, overmnight solourn, alien dirty weekend or whatever you want to call it.
Are we so unattractive a species that these visitors might have come all thiis way (and presumably from multiple distant places- not just one) and not attempted some form of contact, exchange of messages - why haven't we had a M.O.U with the Sirius B folks?
If an idea is credilble, it generally balances out when looked at from a different perspective. The alien visitation idea does not. At least not to me.
Peter

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

Peter - a couple of things occur to me here.
First contact protocols - do not interfere with species that are not yet capable of peaceful intercourse.

Do not wander about with no clothes on - it's bad for your virus status quo.

Avoid learning one of 289 languages.

When you come back in a year, and time dilation has moved you forward 150 years, you're going to get a helluva kick if you made yourself a God last time you were here.

[xelasnave]

If anyone is smart enough to get here they will be smart enough not to be seen by us and as we dont see any that proves they are already here.
alex

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by PeterM

Ditto to what Alex said.
It's a stretch that amateur astronomers don't recognise when something different happens in the sky with the naked eye, heck we see meteors, satellites, just a flicker from airoplane in the distance, a high beam light reflecting of fog in the distance etc etc. Especially when amateurs know the sky. I remember reading once that if more people knew about astronomy there would be less UFO reports and there are now a gazillion people with mobile phone cameras out there, so where is the increase in UFO picks. My god we should be filming the invasion by now.
PeterM

Most people don't even bother to look up anymore, Peter.

Most amateur astronomers don't recognise many changes occurring in the sky because for the most part they're still unfamiliar with it. You or I would, simply because we have a lot of experience behind us. Most of the members here would...or I should hope so. But even we can get bamboozled at times. And many times, we're not outside for whatever reasons at the time. Doing other things, sleeping etc etc.

In any case, any credible researcher looking at UFO's doesn't go chasing what are the obvious cases of optical illusions, "lights in the sky" and such. What they go chasing are those reports where a witness has spotted something very unusual hanging around...like a full blown metallic disk hovering or flying on by, lights that do have something physical behind them etc etc etc. Then they look at those reports and see whether they hold up to scrutiny, or not. Those that do (and there are a lot more than you think), well and good. Those that don't fall by the wayside.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by jenchris

Peter - a couple of things occur to me here.
First contact protocols - do not interfere with species that are not yet capable of peaceful intercourse.

Yep, you might disturb the neighbours or the people in the next hotel room

Originally Posted by jenchris

Do not wander about with no clothes on - it's bad for your virus status quo.

And you can get arrested for indecent exposure

Originally Posted by jenchris

Avoid learning one of 289 languages.

Two are enough, English and Chinese. They're the most popular

Originally Posted by jenchris

When you come back in a year, and time dilation has moved you forward 150 years, you're going to get a helluva kick if you made yourself a God last time you were here.

Lord it over the natives...get all the boys/girls, the money and the kudos from all that adulation

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

There was a case a few years back here on the Gold Coast - three large V shaped occultations of the sky - about 14km on a side over M1 at Gaven
At least a dozen people I know saw something but couldn't photo it - it was black on a dark night - just the stars disappeared - and the sky was 'darker'

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

If anyone is smart enough to get here they will be smart enough not to be seen by us and as we dont see any that proves they are already here.
alex

Question solved!!!!

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by jenchris

There was a case a few years back here on the Gold Coast - three large V shaped occultations of the sky - about 14km on a side over M1 at Gaven
At least a dozen people I know saw something but couldn't photo it - it was black on a dark night - just the stars disappeared - and the sky was 'darker'

Each "V" was 14km on a side??. That's pretty big!!!.

Was the sky cloudy at all??

Did the "V's" have sharply defined edges??

[pmrid (Peter)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

If anyone is smart enough to get here they will be smart enough not to be seen by us and as we dont see any that proves they are already here.
alex

Now there it is: that funny-looking guy I saw in the elevator this morning wasn't a Japanese tourist coming home after a night in a Karaoke bar at all - it was Yoda himself. I have had an encounter of the nth kind.
Peter

[pmrid (Peter)]

Originally Posted by jenchris

.. you're going to get a helluva kick if you made yourself a God last time you were here.

I did. But now after 150 years, I forget which one. I'll start again. How will I ever explain this back home?

Peter

[PeterM]

Not admitting anything... trying putting a glow stick in a large white helium balloon on a steady night, let it drift and follow it for ages naked eye and then in binos. In fact do it with several balloons and read/hear about the credible UFO sightings the next day in the paper and on the radio/tv, I mean what else could it be its a spaceship right?

Actually there is an even more convincing way to do this but it involves fire so i wont go there....

About 15 years ago as one of about 30 amateur astronomers near Rathdowney we witnessed 4 incredibly bright pieces of space debris falling back to Earth. In fact seen all over SE Qld. Co-incidentally on the same night in some Brisbane suburbs power went out thanks to a possum committing suicide in an electrical transformer. Next morning UFO "researchers" are on the radio claiming it could be nothing less proof of UFO activity, made the papers as well. We rang the radio stations, rang the tv and the only mention we got was that "astronomers observing near Rathdowney also saw the UFOs" wow we unwittingly confirmed it!

Years ago I was presenting an Astronomy night with others to a group of school students at Marsden, Southside Brissy, who spotted a "UFO" moving towards the oval ....yup someone pulled the old glow stick balloon trick. looked convincing in binos!

Years ago at Warwick while presenting a night sky tour myself and several others were bamboozelled by 3 "stars" slowly travelling in perfect triangle formation, horizon to horizon, Tony (FirstLight) can tell you what that was cause he and others saw it too from considerable distance away..... so what was it? I know exactly (well the next day I did, but I didn't jump to strange light = spaceship = aliens) but I will let you do some internet searching. US military is a good start...
To the kids it was a UFO (like aliens) I mean what else travels in perfect formation through the night sky?

Many years ago I met Robert Schaeffer who had written a book called UFOs the Final Verdict. He researched the historically best known "events" Meticulously tracing the stories as best he could to the source and in every case he came across the stories had grown their own legs even when a perfectly normal explanation had been arrived at.

How many everyday people saw the horizon glow of Comet McNaught and believed they were seeing a UFO - heaps that I met.

How about the farmer who saw the dump and burn of F111s over Riverfire over Brisbane from more than a hundred km away and thought they were UFOs...

I ask again, gazillions of mobile cameras all over the world..... so where are they? Even if you accept the amateur astronomer rarely looks skyward then this more than blows any argument away. Not a shred of hard evidence, nothing.

PeterM.

[marki]

pffftt silly humans still think we need spaceships to get around . No imagination at all .


Mark