20' Container Observatory

[bloodhound31]

Fantastic idea mate, well conceived. I love seeing this sort of ingenuity where people use anything available to them and make the best of it.

In for later!

Baz.

[scagman (John)]

Its looking good.

How will you open and close the roof section. I would imagine the sections to be rather heavy.

[mtodman (Matt)]

Hi john.
The opening / closing mechanism is still being figured out. There are a couple of options being investigated, the ideal one being a hydraulic setup however I think that will be cost prohibitive. The current thinking is to use a combination of a winch & gas struts.
A lot will depend on the weight of each of the 2 roof sections. If I can lift one of the sections enough to pass the gravitational pivot point, the gas strutts will lower it at a steady rate. I would then winch the roof sections back up to close it (probably with a hand winch). Anyway, I hope to have this sorted out within the next couple of weeks.
The main issue here is that I can't find any other examples of where this has been done before so there will be a fair bit of learning as we go. But that's half of the fun isn't it?

Cheers

Matt

[koputai (Jason)]

Portable air-con will most likely do any good. I used one in my shed (light coloured mini-orb external cladding over fully insulated stud walls, corrugated fibreglass roof sheeting over fully insulated ceiling, concrete slab floor) and during summer the 3kw portable unit could not cope. I ended up installing an LG 2.2kw in-wall air-con and this is great. For a 20 foot container sitting in the sun, I don't know whether anything short of 15kw would do it. Passive means (shading) along with good ventilation will be your best bet.

Cheers,
Jason.

[mtodman (Matt)]

Hi John,
Thanks for the info. I think the temperature management issue will be the toughest one to overcome. I'm hoping that the current ventilation plans along with the the 50mm interior insulation and heat reflective paint will do the job.
If I up needing to go with an AC unit, I'm only going to worry about the walled off end section where the important stuff will live. It will occupy a space of ~14 sqm. From what I can make out, I would need about 10,000 BTU per hour to keep the temp at an acceptable level (say, below 35 deg c on a hot summers day).
There are portable units out there that go up to 15,000 BTU but I guess we'll just have to wait & see how it all works out.

Cheers

Matt

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Not knowing your site but I would think the Nth/Sth polar axis direction is the most important one. Everything will eventually revolve above you.
Could you not turn the container 90 degrees to give you best horizons in that axis ?
My own plan gives me Nth to 40 degrees and South to about 25 degree. East is almost 90 degrees, (CBD LP anyway ) and West is about 40 degrees but irregular. My most important view is South to the SCP so I have this 'slice' of sky which varies from about 60 degrees to about 120 degrees in this sweep across the heavens.

Just a suggestion.

[mtodman (Matt)]

Hi Brent,
What you say makes very good sense (thanks) and is something that I've been considering. I'm lucky to be in a position where I have the flexability of orienting the container either N-S or E-W. The views to the South will be unimpeded so imaging close to the horizon would be a possability. The EW horizons are blocked by trees but I need to wait until I move (end of August) before I work out the relative horizon altitudes. My current thinking however is that I'll take your advise.

Cheers

Matt

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Hi Matt

I am suitably envious of your impending journey

I put a lot of thought into using a container on the property I have used over the last two years and because I wasn't the owner thought a modified shipping container that could be easily removed as a uint was worth cosideration.

I considered quite a few options in the design but had I gone ahead I was planning to have the half of the roof over the elevated observing area simply slide back over the warm room half. This would have just required two angle channels running the full length of the two sides of the container roof, some castors on the moving half and a skirt to protect the sides. I was planning on simply putting handles on the edge of the sliding section so I could just pull it open and closed by sliding it out of the road and back again - simple..? This would have kept the container foot print from growing too and negate the need for outriggers.

Depending on the size of the observing area I was imagining a whirly bird on the unopned end just out of teh way of the fully opened roof.

A container has big doors too that can be opened to let heat escape very fast before you start.

The other option I was considering was cutting a circlular hole over the observing area and wacking a 2.3m Sirius dome over it - that would work too and prevent dew during the session so nothing ever gets wet - dew is something I hate.

Good luck with your progress and who knows your experiences may just spark me to venture down the same thought road again

Mike

[mtodman (Matt)]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Hi Matt

I am suitably envious of your impending journey

I am suitably nervous about my impending journey

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

I put a lot of thought into using a container on the property I have used over the last two years and because I wasn't the owner thought a modified shipping container that could be easily removed as a uint was worth cosideration.

Portability is one of the big benefits of using a container. You can get it built to your spec's in the workshop and then transported to your ideal location. The other big benefit is that you don't need council approval to have a container sitting on your property as they are classed as temporary structures by many councils.

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

I considered quite a few options in the design but had I gone ahead I was planning to have the half of the roof over the elevated observing area simply slide back over the warm room half. This would have just required two angle channels running the full length of the two sides of the container roof, some castors on the moving half and a skirt to protect the sides. I was planning on simply putting handles on the edge of the sliding section so I could just pull it open and closed by sliding it out of the road and back again - simple..? This would have kept the container foot print from growing too and negate the need for outriggers.

I was originally considering the same thing but my concern was that this would restrict access to the horizon over the warm room of the conatiner. I'm not really sure how valid a concern this is though.
The other thing I need to consider is the complexity (ie cost) of the end design. According to the container modders, the current fold out roof design is far simpler to construct than a rolling roof design.

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

The other option I was considering was cutting a circlular hole over the observing area and wacking a 2.3m Sirius dome over it - that would work too and prevent dew during the session so nothing ever gets wet - dew is something I hate.

Mmmmmm 2.3M Sirius dome . Now that would be nice.
Who knows. Maybe Container Observatory version 2 will come with that nice feature.

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Originally Posted by mtodman

Hi Brent,
What you say makes very good sense (thanks) and is something that I've been considering. I'm lucky to be in a position where I have the flexability of orienting the container either N-S or E-W. The views to the South will be unimpeded so imaging close to the horizon would be a possability. The EW horizons are blocked by trees but I need to wait until I move (end of August) before I work out the relative horizon altitudes. My current thinking however is that I'll take your advise.

Cheers

Matt

Got it figured out for you Matt. It's bloody obvious !! Just face the big end doors of the container ... South !! Open them wide and enjoy the view, right down to grass level.
If you put in a false floor you just need to build some stairs up and over the platform to the very secure warm room at the north end.
Stairs could be mounted onto one door and swing out from under the false floor to be available. 600 mm is only 2 or 3 treads.
It would also btw minimise your north facing wall to reduce solar heating a bit.
And I think the half roof on rails (Mikes idea) makes good sense as well. False floor should also get you above the north roof view restriction.

Are you going to run the pier down into the ground through a hole in the floor or have you another idea ?

I am beginning to think of re-orientating my shed ob for similar reasons, that lower southerly view. And I may not have to cut down my old orange tree which fruits so well.

[mtodman (Matt)]

Hi Brent,

I'm not sure how your suggestion would work as you would still need a very solid permanent structure above the end doors to hinge them on. I still think I prefer your first suggestion (sounds much easier and I think it would work well).

Yes, I am definately sinking the base of my pier well into the ground (1 cubic metre seems to be the recommendation). I'll fill a peice of 300mm formatube with cement to make the pier itsself. The obs will have a big hole in the lower & raised floors for the pier to poke through & I'll ensure it's fully isolated from the container structure.

Good luck with the reorientation of your obs & the preservation of your orange tree.

Matt

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Originally Posted by mtodman

Hi Brent,

I'm not sure how your suggestion would work as you would still need a very solid permanent structure above the end doors to hinge them on. I still think I prefer your first suggestion (sounds much easier and I think it would work well).

Matt

Matt, The container has two big doors at one end, hinged at either side, ..correct ?
Face that end South with your pier also at that end and have it high enough (tall pier) to give sight above the East/West walls and the North roof line. Build a platform maybe 600-800 high inside around the pier for access to the scope.
Open the doors, latch them back, look south at your leisure.

I'll do ya a picture later if it helps.

You've got to be creative in your solutions, having a site for a container just opens up the possibilities.

[frolinmod]

I'm surprised that you're contemplating placing a sea cargo container on your property. Over here where I am located the county wide zoning laws and ordinances make that a risky proposition. You can get heavily fined for doing it.

[Amunous (Michael)]

I've never understood these styles of observatories. You can only look straight up. What happens if you want to look at something else in the other 160deg of sky you cant access from the obs?

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Originally Posted by Amunous

I've never understood these styles of observatories. You can only look straight up. What happens if you want to look at something else in the other 160deg of sky you cant access from the obs?

It's all a matter of balancing telescope and wall height. Get the scope up high enough to give good views over the walls but low enough to get out of the wind and lower LP. Anything below about 25 degrees is in the soup anyway and not worth viewing. That still gives you 130 degrees of sky in all directions if you plan and site it right.
With good North South horizons and if you are patient everything will pass overhead at some time of the year. That will be my situation, Eastern and Western Horizons are pretty bad, North is not great but I have good Southern skies and that is where it is all happening as far as I am concerned.
Sometimes you have to make the best of a bad situation and I know of worse.

[Amunous (Michael)]

Yeah i can see that. It was just from where I'm sitting it does not look like your going to be able to see anything other than straight up. Which is pointless lol.

[ZeroID (Brent)]

I suspect that what you are looking at are concept drawings, not plans. As I mentioned earlier, false floors, pier height etc are all yet to be decided when and if the project goes ahead.
Have faith young padawan and all will be revealed.

[Moon (James)]

I'm surprised that you're contemplating placing a sea cargo container on your property.

I'm a little bit surprised too - but good luck to you if you proceed.
How difficult is it to cut neat holes in these things?
I think a container would be ideal for secure storage. When you start talking about turning it into an obervatory I can see a few potential issues and some inevitable compromises.
James

[Shiraz (Ray)]

FWIW re heat problems, I used an old refrigerated container for wine making and storage. Painted the roof white, the local fridge mech took out the compressor unit (and paid for it) and I put in the smallest room aircon available. It stayed at 18C through summer and needed very little power. Would be a good solution if you can get hold of one - and if the local council is relaxed about it. regards Ray

[GrampianStars (Rob)]

G'day Mtodman (Matt)
Cooling........
you can buy brick vents (screened for insects) at the big "B" or elsewhere and install then at floor level and at roof level in the container.
this will give a natural air flow through the Obs.
Refrigeration (foam insert) panels on the north and west sides with an air gap as well as the roof with air gap
a raised shade cloth on the roof (4" min) WILL reduce
the internal temps to up to 5C below to Ambient or Hot Summer days
without power assist !!
Oh.. and cut out a drop down section for the North wall (for M33in Nov.)