Riots all over London

[Davros (Lauren)]

I guess this shows what a non conservative society achieves. I have seen people of all colours in the photos with the common denominator that they are all grubs who have no social responsibility. Its what comes of a 'me comes first and everyone else doesnt mater' style of leadership. I guess Australia is heading the same way. Give it a few years as things are going and we will see it here.

[Hagar (Doug)]

This behavior just isn't acceptable and should be treated as if it was a terrorist attack. Real bullets, gas grenades and a full military action and perhaps some of the youths involved would think twice and maybe some of their parents might consider acting responsibly as well.
Bugger it, why should they get away with this mob mentality and action.

[takdriver (Graeme)]

Totally agree with Hagar. Shoot 'em, black, white or any other colour. Just Kill them. Takdriver.

[Waxing_Gibbous (Peter)]

Geez guys, it's only a little civil disorder.
Would your attitudes have been the same at the Eureka Stockade?

These are very much isolated incidences.
The narrow television coverage, always after a good conflict, makes it look as though the whole city is out of control.
Only HUNDREDS are at it, not thousands or millions.
London is a huuuge city with 8 million-odd people and if the Germans couldn't break it with the Blitz, I doubt a few hundred yobbos are going to do it.

I've talked with two friends, one in Islington the other in Tottenham.
Both said they could walk the streets in complete safety and the chap in Tottenham had to go through the riots to go anywhere.
He said unless you were actually there, in an affected area, you wouldn't know that anything was happening and no-one hassled him!

As an adjunct to that, I saw footage today of a particularly run-down council estate where I used to live (Mare St. and Morning Lane in Hackney) it WAS having a bit of trouble, but the place is a ****hole and always was.

I sympathise with the victims of arson and looting and if some toe-rag tried to torch my house I'd 'ki' 'is ******* teef in', but worse is going on in Syria and Darfur so a little perspective is in order.

[leon]

There is no excuse for the actions of these morons, hose them off the street, round them up, then tie them in the streets they destroyed and humiliate them with a sign around their necks letting every one see them for what the are.

Then send them to Afghanistan, for six months in the desert.

Leon

[KenGee (Kenith Gee)]

What a stange comment Davros? Read a bit of English history the long term unemployed have been behaving like this since time began.

As for the riots the Met seem to have two modes kill or by stander. round them up and send them to Afhanistan is a great idea. A few jolts of a tazar would be a good addition.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Pay TV news channels are giving fairly regular reports as they come in from spectators, residents and even a few of the trouble makers.

They say that many of the people involved in this nonsense are just kids hearing about it (TV, Radio, Facebook, Twitter) and joining in the mayhem just for the fun of it.
Apparently many of those involved don't know why they are being anarchistic, they are just joining in on the 'fun'.

It was announced about 2 hours ago that there will be over 13,000 police on the streets in the trouble areas tonight.
Sounds like the trouble-makers might be outnumbered

[icytailmark (Mark)]

all the people that are arrested should be made to clean up and rebuild all the buildings they have destroyed.

[Paul Haese]

I would expect to see more of this world wide in the coming years. Most countries are verging on bankruptcy and that means one thing. A worldwide recession/ maybe depression. That is gong to mean a lot of people suffering and that might just bring change.

The reality is that the great unwashed are now getting organised and taking action against their hatred of the bourgeois. Capitalism is in the end game. The pursuit of wealth and ownership of everything is often at the expense of those who don't have the means to buy anything or to use Marx; production. All of this is totally predictable really. Wait till it happens in the States and mainland Europe.

Just watching and waiting now. Change is good.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

If the police started using guns, it would be no better than Syria - The police spokeman has said that they will analyse the CCTV and charge EVERYONE who has been a part of it.
So let hem play - as long as they don't hurt anyone. Then they can spend their time repairing the buildings and streets and all those who are found to be illegal immigrants will be exported.
I expect that they will be even poorer in the long run - so it is counterproductive

[iceman (Mike)]

I haven't seen the news for the last few days so haven't seen or heard much of what's going on, but I thought this was an interesting quote:

In one NBC report, a young man in Tottenham was asked if rioting really achieved anything:

"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?"

"Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."

Eavesdropping from among the onlookers, I looked around. A dozen TV crews and newspaper reporters interviewing the young men everywhere ‘’’

I guess that's quite true. No excuse for the behaviour and the mindless property damage though.

http://pennyred.blogspot.com/2011/08...of-london.html

Especially when I think the majority of them aren't doing it for the right reasons - mobs organised through social media just to cause havoc 'because they can'.

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

Another interesting link.
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2011/...up-of-the-day/

[TrevorW]

Enoch Powell predicted all this 40 years ago and was crucified as being a racist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_of_Blood_speech

Open borders uncontrolled immigration the quest for multicultralism, overpopulation, profits at the expense of people, rampant unemployment, environment, lack of education, will all lead to social unrest.

It'll only get worse

[casstony]

Economic desperation leaves people looking for someone to blame, such as people with different wealth status, different skin colour, different religion, etc.

When the social discontent becomes great enough to threaten governments the people responsible for the mess (politicians/banksters) define internal and/or external threats at which to redirect the people's anger. We ain't seen nothin' yet.

[graham.hobart (Graham stevens)]

Have to agree with Leon here, even though I am a pommie and only on these fatal shores for 10 years.
This is opportunistic crime of the highest order. There is no way in the world you can justify this or try to- living in a sink estate (free health care) , getting benefit (free health care) and having no opportunities (until Cameron came in relatively cheap to get a Uni degree in the UK compared to Aus) So life sucks, your next door man is a drug dealer and the bus is often 10 minutes late. Life really sucks when someone else pays for it. I'm sorry but after working in the NHS and now working down here, I have to say the NHS works for the people that really can't pay up there
example? Xray in NHs ... free, Xray with no health care card in Aus errr $120.
Point being it ain't that bad there, not like North Korea anyway.
Maybe the great scheme of things is lost in a benefit society, so if everything comes for free, why not take more, it's not like you are going to lose a job.

In the grand scheme of things UK is so so much better than say Somalia, Uganda, or Bratislava so standard of living is no excuse.
Look at the footage- they basically ripped off anything that was portable but not necessarily essential-wide screen TV's being the essential item for the anarchist, followed by hamburgers, then breaking the window and ****ting in a health food store
Bikes, techno goods, Armani shop- this is not the grand remonstrance or the peasants revolt.
This is pure and simple excuse my language but **** heads taking a chance
the tragedy is a. the local business's won't be taken for fools and either they will move , close down or exclude types,
b. It pretty much sets a precedent for the next time there is a cop vs man with gun (although he was a family man-with a gun) show down
Pity the cops
pity the parliamentarians
pity the folks that live in these **** hole estates where any excuse for mayhem is gratefully received.
But I have to say again -pity the cops who have to deal with complete lawlessness whilst spineless politicians tour the wreckage.
Good look for the Olympics though- 500metre dash with a HD wide screen TV as new sport.


Have to declare influences here
I was born and raised in the UK and well remember other riots including one where a police man was beheaded and the head was paraded around on a stick
My older brother is a police man in the UK
My sister is a teacher in the UK and she gets abused, spat on, generally disrespected on a daily basis.
Gatherings to make a political statement (poll tax etc ) are no longer gatherings and are pure and simple arse headed riots when shops are broken into
P.S who ever heard of an anarchist wanting to wear Armani or have a big Mac?
Regards
furious Graz

My sister

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Waxing_Gibbous

Clapham!
Clapham is an island of civility. I lived in Clapham for 3 years (don't know why).
Try Hackney or Tottenham - they're scary!
Police racism (perceived or actual), unemployment, crappy neighbourhoods, youthful hormones and a sense of being marginalised all contribute to the breakdown of good order.

True. Clapham's not too bad. Battersea Park's near by and probably rubs off a bit . I worked in Hackney. It is a dangerous place. Cockney territory. Tottenham wasn't too bad so was Kings Cross. Elephant & castle was very very bad.

I think London is a great place. I lived there 4 yrs and it's a great city. Most people like a bit of fun sure but there's no excuse for what's going on right now. This is like hooliganism. Nothing 'cultural' about this. They're just thugs. No more no less.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by KenGee

What a stange comment Davros? Read a bit of English history the long term unemployed have been behaving like this since time began.

That raises an interesting question: when did unemployment first occur? The concept of unemployment would have been unknown in hunter-gatherer society, likewise I can't see it being allowed in any sort of communal agriculture. Serfs wouldn't have been allowed to slack off and every able-bodied peasant would be required to work on the family, or the landlord's, farm. [I'm here excluding the idol rich.]

I think unemployment as we know it is a capitalist phenomena - certainly capitalism requires unemployment. I'm not sure but perhaps it only postdates the clearances and the rise of the factories.

Ask a rioter about their grievance and they will say 'poverty' to which some will rightly point out that even the poor in Britian are better off than many elsewhere in the world (and so they should go back to their holes and shut up). One thing this ignores is the juxaposition of poverty and great wealth - it's not just the poverty it's the contrast. However both of these perspectives ignores one very important aspect - self esteem. Going to work and supporting ourselves is good for us. Doing a job, feeling necessary, having the self discipline to stick at a job are really important parts of our development and self image. I've seen enough long-term unemployed to have a good sense of this, even though I don't think I'm describing it well. However I think it is a large part of the reason some people feel so disconnected from mainstream society that they are able to feel justified in acting this way.

[TrevorW]

We reap what we sow

[jeff65 (Jeff)]

AstralTraveller,

You ask a wonderful question that is never asked.

Unemployment is due to the existence of a state. This comes from the creation of state money, the imposition of taxes, and the enclosure of land as private property. This is why the state should be obliged to look after the unemployed.

[Gem (Grant)]

Some people (I am speaking in general terms from various media comments) need to stop blaming poverty, unemployment, etc... for these riots. I lived for 5 years in rural Africa. People struggles to get one meal a day but didn't loot or riot. Most genuine poor people I met were quite polite, kind and considerate. Elders are respected. Youths wouldn't dream of answering back to anyone older than themselves - regardless of their own education or lack of. The rural (and poorer areas) showed this even more so than the urban, richer areas.
What we are seeing is greed. Society doesn't teach or instill respect for authority or for other people. It is cooler to question than it is to obey. While that is good in some ways, the British are now reaping the effects of TV pushing boundaries, social media, lack of respect for anyone older than yourself, etc...
No simple solutions to the problems in UK, but lets not say they are hard done by. Most would get more than one meal a day. Most have access to schools. Most have far better opportunities than 90% of the world - even if they are an ethnic minority in the UK they still have it better off than most places in the world. Yet some people try to excuse the poor behaviour...