New Lunar/Planetary cameras from The Imaging Source

iceman (Mike) · #1 12-07-2011, 05:15 AM

Great news for those that haven't bought the Flea3 yet.

The Imaging Source have finally released their own line of DMK/DFK cameras with the Sony ICX618 CCD. The ICX618 is the same one used in the Flea3 and is well known for its extra sensitivity and low noise.

It'll do 60fps at 640x480, they're available in Monochrome or Colour, and in USB, Firewire or GigE.

Release news here:
http://www.astronomycamerasblog.com/...ny-ccd-icx618/

Products page here:
http://www.astronomycameras.com/en/products/

They start from $490, ex-tax and shipping.

If I get one of these, it might just be enough to get me outside in the cold and do some imaging again.

asimov (John) · #2 12-07-2011, 06:55 AM

I won't be going one until proven they can capture @ 60FPS without the artifacts that the preceding cameras with the old chip were producing.

Paul Haese · #3 20-07-2011, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman

It'll do 60fps at 640x480, they're available in Monochrome or Colour, and in USB, Firewire or GigE.

My flea with a C14 will only do 45fps with a 3/4 histogram. Quoted figures such as this are misrepresentative to most imagers. It might well do that on the moon or sun but I seriously doubt that any scope under an 18" would achieve such results on the planets (maybe Mars). Perhaps a 16" at 3/4 histogram on Jupiter. Saturn I was getting 34 frames per second in Red and Green but only 19fps in blue.

Good to see Imaging Source trying to keep up though.

iceman (Mike) · #4 20-07-2011, 01:26 PM

It's not a misrepresentation - it's just the specs.

I don't disagree with you though, on some targets it just won't be bright enough at 60fps.

There are still a few targets (moon, sun, ISS) that those specs are great for.

asimov (John) · #5 22-07-2011, 10:30 AM

So far, the mono & DFK versions have been released. Seems strange they haven't released the DBK version, considering it was/is the one you'd go for if wanting to do OSC imaging & not the DFK..

EDIT: Correction. According to the products page (posted by Mike) it has been released. You beauty!

Paul Haese · #6 22-07-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman

It's not a misrepresentation - it's just the specs.

I am not suggesting your are doing this, just that the specs are misrepresentive of actual real world imaging.

netwolf · #7 23-07-2011, 03:31 AM

Great news, Is this USB 2.0 or USB 3.0?
So far Point Grey have not indicated a Flea3 with ICX618 being released with USB 3.0 interface.

asimov (John) · #8 23-07-2011, 03:42 AM

USB 2 Fahim although they are also being released as GIGE & firewire versions as well.

riklaunim · #9 23-07-2011, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

I seriously doubt that any scope under an 18" would achieve such results on the planets (maybe Mars). Perhaps a 16" at 3/4 histogram on Jupiter. Saturn I was getting 34 frames per second in Red and Green but only 19fps in blue.

Exposure time doesn't depend on aperture, but on f-ratio, and usually people want max resolution from given scope.

Very high framerate may be usable when doing luminescence imaging (with for example atmospheric dispersion corrector) - although limiting gain usually is better than super-short exposures at max gain. Here are some my Saturn examples (f/20 C11):
http://www.rkastrofoto.appspot.com/s..._gain_test.png

Poita (Peter) · #10 23-07-2011, 02:26 PM

Hi Fahim, BTW did you use to work at Autodesk?

I'm quite interested in these cameras as an alternative to the flea.

rat156 · #11 23-07-2011, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riklaunim

Exposure time doesn't depend on aperture, but on f-ratio, and usually people want max resolution from given scope.

Very high framerate may be usable when doing luminescence imaging (with for example atmospheric dispersion corrector) - although limiting gain usually is better than super-short exposures at max gain. Here are some my Saturn examples (f/20 C11):
http://www.rkastrofoto.appspot.com/s..._gain_test.png

Of course this is correct, but given that people generally want the highest resolution image that they can manage, they will put in image magnifiers (Barlows, Telextenders, Powermates etc.), these will of course affect the f-ratio. The larger the aperture the less of these you will have to put in to get an image of the required scale, hence the smaller f-ratio, hence a "faster" scope. So the aperture and f-ratio are inextricably linked in planetary imaging.

Cheers
Stuart

netwolf · #12 23-07-2011, 05:02 PM

Peter yes I worked at Autodesk it was my first real job, late 90's.

I too am looking at the Flea3 but I was hopping for a USB 3.0 version. Firewire is not a common interface on laptops and most of the comemrcial laptops for home users dont come with Expresscard slots anymore. So adding firewire is a challenge. GigE might be the way to go.

Asimov, where have you been hiding mate. long time since i saw a post from you. But then I have not been on myself a lot.

Regards
Fahim

Poita (Peter) · #13 23-07-2011, 05:20 PM

My macbook pro has firewire, so I figure that is the way I will go.
You can pick up an old macbook 13" 2GHz dual core model for around $400 that has firewire built in. They make a great astro computer as you can run OSX and Windows, throw a small SSD in them and they fly too.

netwolf · #14 24-07-2011, 05:12 AM

Peter, crazy who you meet on these forums, never thought I would see you here. Did not even know you had a scope all those years ago. So all those years ago you taught me about PC's and now you have gone to the darkside. Mac's?

Well why not I myself have been tempted to get one, but have thus far resisted the urge. But you make a compelling argument.

asimov (John) · #15 24-07-2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netwolf

Asimov, where have you been hiding mate. long time since i saw a post from you. But then I have not been on myself a lot.

Regards
Fahim

Hi Wolfie, long time no see. Yeah I get around still. I spread myself thinly between 4 or 5 forums these days.

A couple of guys have received the new 618 camera (Europe & the US) & we are all waiting patiently for the testing to be done.

I'll be going the USB version if/when I purchase. I have 2 older (DBK/DMK) USB versions that have never missed a beat but a lot depends on the laptop used for capturing.

iceman (Mike) · #16 24-07-2011, 04:09 PM

I'm getting a USB version of the 618 to test out, so it's bound to inspire me to get outside and image Jupiter and the Moon!

Poita (Peter) · #17 25-07-2011, 12:08 AM

Yep, I had a C8 sitting in my backyard that whole time, had no idea you were interested!

I need to support Mac and PC clients, and when the quad-core MBP's came out and I could run Windows and OSX and Linux on the one laptop, it was time to change

I'm eagerly waiting to see how these new cameras shape up for planetary use, I'd like to get something a little better than my Toucam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by netwolf

Peter, crazy who you meet on these forums, never thought I would see you here. Did not even know you had a scope all those years ago. So all those years ago you taught me about PC's and now you have gone to the darkside. Mac's?

Well why not I myself have been tempted to get one, but have thus far resisted the urge. But you make a compelling argument.

Paul Haese · #18 25-07-2011, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riklaunim

Exposure time doesn't depend on aperture, but on f-ratio, and usually people want max resolution from given scope.

Very high framerate may be usable when doing luminescence imaging (with for example atmospheric dispersion corrector) - although limiting gain usually is better than super-short exposures at max gain. Here are some my Saturn examples (f/20 C11):
http://www.rkastrofoto.appspot.com/s..._gain_test.png

Hmm, yes it does but it depends on how you look at things. Ideally one wants to reduce the exposure time as much as possible to freeze the seeing. If you want to maintain a certain image scale and reduce your exposure time then you need a larger aperture. Been using a C14 at high res for sometime now. Perhaps you ought to take a little look at my site too.

While your argument is well understood I don't entire agree. I don't want to image at f20. I prefer to image at f30 and above because increased image scale means more detail captured per pixel. That means I can resample to a larger extent than at a lower f ratio. So given this you cannot image at 60 fps with this camera on objects such as Jupiter and exposure is then governed by aperture for larger image scales.