Interstellar Travel Challenge

[CraigS]

This thread is spawned from the Antimatter thread.

It seems worthy of its own thread (independent from discussions on Antimatter), so here goes ..

My post from the antimatter thread …

Originally Posted by CraigS

Here ya go .. for all you dreamers out there … looks like you may have missed the cutoff date (July 8th) .. but 150 entries seem to have made it ! …

Pentagon dreams of Star Trek interstellar travel

Website here.

Cheers

The Carl's comments:

Originally Posted by renormalised

There's nothing to be a "dream" about this. If DARPA and the Pentagon put something like this out, they're serious bout it. A lot of people think this is some sort of pipe dream, but how many would actually know anything about it to even comment, let alone know what has actually gone on with regards to this.

That Steve Ellis guy from "Tax Payers for Common Sense"...that name is a bit of an oxymoron. You only have to look at the state of the world to know that very few living in it actually have any common sense and most tax payers couldn't care where their money is spent...they show no real interest in it anyway, apart from being taxed in the first place!!.

In any case, most of the members of organisations such as these seem to show no capacity for understanding these subjects and many have no imagination or drive to look beyond their own little concerns.

[CraigS]

It seems DARPA held a workshop in Northern California on January 11-12, 2011. They produced a whitepaper to kick this whole thing off.

Here is a quote from the paper:

Why Explore Beyond Earth’s Atmosphere:

Workshop participants spent extensive time exploring the drivers and motivating factors for long-term exploration of space. This began with several questions, including: what are the most important drivers to support the long- term vision of interstellar travel by humans? Why should we go to the stars?

The group identified five key factors as high-level motivations for the exploration of distant space:

• Human survival: ideas related to creating a legacy for the human species, backing up the Earth’s biosphere, and enabling long-term survival in the face of catastrophic disasters on Earth.
• Contact with other life: finding answers to whether there is other life in the universe, whether “intelligent” life exists elsewhere in the galaxy, and at a basic level, whether we are alone in the universe.
• Evolution of the human species: exploration as a human imperative, expansion of human understanding and consciousness through space exploration.
• Scientific discovery: breakthroughs in scientific understanding of the natural universe, a pursuit for knowledge.
• Belief and faith: a search for God or the Divine, a need to explore beyond Earth’s atmosphere as a part of natural theology or as found through religious revelation.

… Carl Sagan wannabes ?

Comments welcome.

Cheers

[renormalised (Carl)]

There is a lot of extraneous discussions at these conferences, but I suppose they have to fill the time in with something....much of it will be important, but more longer term. They have to build the things first before they start to really consider the implications of going out there, simply because all the philosophising will not prepare them for what they'll eventually find. There'll always be curve balls and spanners thrown into the works

Can't do too much without the means to get you there....like wanting to goto Canada for a holiday but only being able to walk there.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

It's not just the getting there is it?
You have to get back as well!
If you drop to a planet surface, you have to be able to get back into orbit. This is a BIG undertaking.
The Outcasts TV prog may give you an insight into the fact that no matter where we end up, we'll take our problems and foibles with us as well as a our viruses and bacteria

[renormalised (Carl)]

Jennifer, if they can fly across light years of space to land on a planet somewhere, I think the problem of getting back up into space will be a moot point. Unless they have a disaster and the ship gets wrecked, or damaged beyond repair. Then it's a case of send out a distress call and wait. Or try to survive on the new planet.

Wherever we go, we will be who we are....bugs and all

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

well - even star trek had problems with impulse drive - but could get into hyperdrive no worrries

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by jenchris

well - even star trek had problems with impulse drive - but could get into hyperdrive no worrries

Not always....Scotty sometimes had problems with the main engines, and despite Kirk's insistence, as Scotty would say "yer cannae change the laws of physics!!!"

Or as Spock would say..."Fascinating...or...The chances of us fixing the main engines in time to get home for dinner are 1 in 200000, Captain."

[RobF (Rob)]

Its disapointing we haven't really done much to get people off earth for so long. When you look at the technology used in Apollo versus what's available now you'd have to think when we do get our act into gear we'll have the benefit of a whole lot more engingeering and IT know-how though. Everytime I find myself in a "won't happen in my lifetime mood" I think back on how much life has changed in the last 10-20 years. I hope we at least get out into the asteroids soon so we dont' have all our eggs in this wonderful basket (Earth)

[renormalised (Carl)]

The problem, Rob, is the political will, and hence, the money to fund these projects. They're too busy wasting money killing other people and fighting unnecessary wars to bother with anything else. Too busy lining the pockets of their business mates and themselves.

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

The concept is sound but only limited to whether we can survive or our destruction.

[bojan]

Another website on this: http://www.centauri-dreams.org/

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by mswhin63

The concept is sound but only limited to whether we can survive or our destruction.

That's up to us...and I don't mean the politicians or the military-industrial sector. They're only in it for themselves and what power/influence/wealth they can get. It's up to the people. If we want change, then we will be the ones to make the change. The others will either change or they won't, in which case we will have a problem. But not one that's insurmountable.

That's the only way we can move forward.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by bojan

Another website on this: http://www.centauri-dreams.org/

It's not a bad site.

[bartman (Bart)]

Originally Posted by CraigS

It seems DARPA held a workshop in Northern California on January 11-12, 2011. They produced a whitepaper to kick this whole thing off.

Here is a quote from the paper:



… Carl Sagan wannabes ?

Comments welcome.

Cheers

I must admit the 5 key points ( to me ) are good points ( even the last one).
It covers questions I would like answered or further investigated!
I hope this 'project' gets the kick,funding, support etc etc like the " by the end of the decade we will have a man on the moon".
Yes I know its not like the "old times" now , but maybe.... just maybe!
Bartman
Cheers Craig!

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

The obvious offshoot of this would be technological advances over the 100 years. Maybe some tech that won't destroy ourselves.

[avandonk]

Here is my jaundiced view.

• Human survival:
We are not even looking after the one home we have Spaceship Earth. To try to establish another as a backup would take huge resources and is a complete fools errand. It is also a plausible excuse for ruining the only home we have.

• Contact with other life: Remote sensing is the safe way to go. Interstellar distances are just too vast. Just hope 'they' do not come here as 'they' would be millions of years ahead of us. Ask the Aboriginal, Indian, African etc what happens when a more advanced mob turn up.
Also see time travel. If time travel was possible we would be inundated with tourists as would the ancient Romans and Greeks and ....!

• Evolution of the human species: Genetic manipulation may allow humans to withstand the long interstellar journeys. We could also modify people to survive extreme environments. Any volunteers? Is this life as we know it Jim?

• Scientific discovery: What could we achieve in interstellar space we cannot do locally? You would certainly find out what loneliness is!

• Belief and faith: This one is rather spurious. If we cannot find an Omnipresent All Knowing God on Earth we are unlikely to find him/her residing in a basement on a planet orbiting Alpha Centauri along with the Unicorn and the pink fluffy pussycat or any other figment of superstitious stone age minds. You may find the plans for the new hyperspace freeway though!

Bert

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by avandonk

• Evolution of the human species: Genetic manipulation may allow humans to withstand the long interstellar journeys. We could also modify people to survive extreme environments. Any volunteers? Is this life as we know it Jim?

Bear Grylls !! (Man vs Wild) …. the true alpha-male !!
He's already half-way there !!

… or maybe Hulk Hogan (??) … nah … he's all broken down following his illustrious wrestling career (and failed marriages).

I don't have any possible answers to the rest of your questions though, Bert.

Cheers & Rgds

[avandonk]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Bear Grylls !! (Man vs Wild) …. the true alpha-male !!
He's already half-way there !!

… or maybe Hulk Hogan (??) … nah … he's all broken down following his illustrious wrestling career (and failed marriages).

I don't have any possible answers to the rest of your questions though, Bert.

Cheers & Rgds

Craig I was thinking more along the lines of the ability to hibernate like bears. There are some animals and plants that can withstand freezing by producing their own cryoprotectants to stop ice crystal formation. This would allow very long journeys as long as the freezers could be powered. Even nuclear derived power would fade over the times needed.

We have reached Jupiter, time to drink our own urine!

Bert

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by avandonk

Craig I was thinking more along the lines of the ability to hibernate like bears. There are some animals and plants that can withstand freezing by producing their own cryoprotectants to stop ice crystal formation. This would allow very long journeys as long as the freezers could be powered. Even nuclear derived power would fade over the times needed.

We have reached Jupiter, time to drink our own urine!

Bert

I was close to the mark by suggesting Bear Grylls then !
(Bears hibernate, can withstand freezing temperatures, survives by consuming anything with calorific value, recycles his own urine … that's a pretty good match for the requirements ! … )

Cheers

[avandonk]

The way molecular biology is advancing we could send a machine that would just assemble all the DNA and RNA etc from materials at any new planet it found and start off a new ecosystem.
All life on Earth is just information stored in complex molecules.

Bert