Orion Optics AG12 astrograph - First Light! - new Starfire comparison

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

I have posted a brief report in the equipment section so I will just post the images here

First light with the new 12" F3.8 Orion Optics UK Astrograph went quite well, collimation is a key factor and I have it pretty close but I think I can still improve it a little..?

All short test exposures as the night was all about making sure that everything worked and familiarising myself with the new platform

Crap light pollution, less than cooperative seeing and a 3/4 moon

NGC 6334 Cats Paw

Centaurus A

Omega Centauri in a 2.6deg diagonal field (seeing was soft )

To see the power of this platform, compare the 10 X 2min Ha Cats Paw image above taken with the AG12 to a 9 X 10min version taken with the standard candle best in the business 6" Starfire:

AG12 v Starfire Comparison

[Bassnut (Fred)]

FINALLY. Sharp as, great detail and colour, guiding good, slight elongation bottom left and right bottom, no biggy, camera square on?. Odd fringing on bright stars (Cats paw only)?.

All in all great start Mike, looks very promising.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

FINALLY. Sharp as, great detail and colour, guiding good, slight elongation bottom left and right bottom, no biggy, camera square on?. Odd fringing on bright stars (Cats paw only)?.

All in all great start Mike, looks very promising.

I know how hard it must be for you to say even semi nice things about a 2.6deg diagonal field of view (@1.6"/pix)...so thanks mate

As you have noted the star images in the corners could be a little better and it varies a little between images (some flex?). I agree some image plain un-squareness is happening there but after the ASA disaster I positively love these stars ...hopefully I will be able to tweek the collimation a tad more but accurately collimating a fast corrected Newt 100% is like balancing two ball bearings on top of each other ..at this stage I am very happy with the look of the frames

The circles around the bright stars in the Cats Paw Ha shot seem to be hallmarks of this design of fast corrected Newt a function of the corrector - filter - CCD window etc as per I've seen in other ASA et al OTA's...just one of those things

Mike

[Bassnut (Fred)]

look, Im nitpicking, dont get all precious on me Mike ;-). its all good. Expecting great things based on these teaser images.

[RobF (Rob)]

Looking very very nice if those are your first light "quickies" Mike! We're all keen to see where you take us when you get this beast up to warp speed. I can handle the odd circle around a bright star if the images are all as crisp as this. Given moon, poor seeing, etc you HAVE to be happy with those!?

[John Hothersall]

Those look very good for quickie tests and the colour in the LRGB is rich. AG12 collects gallons of light butI know collimation is key with those big sensors. Will have to take a look at your review.

John.

[richardo (Rich)]

Wooooooowww, mmmmm love the spikes Mike
This is pure testimony to what very well crafted fast optics in a reflector package can do... also the speed and quality in which detail can be obtained.
For first light bra, your away and really rockin'.

Super tight stars and focus. I wouldn't be too worried about the very slight elongation I can only see in the corners to the Cats paw... a huge chip which will show everything.

Mate, the image of the cats Paw for only 20min, wow.... who needs to do heaps of hours... not when things come in this good.
Love your Omega.... perfect!! Not a sign of elongation, had this spot on Same with your Cent A, spot on

I feel really happy for you Mike.... this is going to be a great ride for you and all of us looking on.

Great stuff and am staying quietly tuned for your next installments

Go forth and image muchly...

All the best,
Rich

[Peter Ward]

Very promising.

Almost certainly some flexure there ( trivial ) which I would sweat as I'm beginning to think this is very difficult to tame in any scope using a 16803 sensor....

Looks to be a top-shelf instrument.

[CoolhandJo (Paul)]

The Omega is outstanding. Endless possibilities now

[telecasterguru (Frank)]

Mike,

Great first up images. I love the colour in Cent A.

Gotta love the fast wide field.

Frank

[atalas]

Congrats on the new scope Big Mike!!! details in the first light shots are great...looking forward to some splendid work in the near future...hurry up!

ps...loose the spiky artifacts ! lol

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

look, Im nitpicking, dont get all precious on me Mike ;-). its all good. Expecting great things based on these teaser images.

Not precious just clear about where you stand on the field size issue

Yeh teasers is a good description. Good seeing, a dark sky and a few hours of exposure should be nock ya sox off stuff by the looks of things?

Originally Posted by RobF

Looking very very nice if those are your first light "quickies" Mike! We're all keen to see where you take us when you get this beast up to warp speed. I can handle the odd circle around a bright star if the images are all as crisp as this. Given moon, poor seeing, etc you HAVE to be happy with those!?

You bet Rob, as many know I had been praying and hoping and saying Hail Mary's and Our Fathers and my prayers were answered - how fitting for Easter

Originally Posted by John Hothersall

Those look very good for quickie tests and the colour in the LRGB is rich. AG12 collects gallons of light butI know collimation is key with those big sensors. Will have to take a look at your review.

John.

Cheers John

You bet, Collimation is an issue for sure especially with such a large sensor, the collimation quality you see in these samples was provide by the Catseye Tools alone, on-camera tweeking would probably improve things a little but when I saw how close I was I didn't want to lose it.... perhaps I will always see some slight variations in the outer stars but if it stays as little as is visible in these test shots... I can live with it

Originally Posted by richardo

Wooooooowww, mmmmm love the spikes Mike
This is pure testimony to what very well crafted fast optics in a reflector package can do... also the speed and quality in which detail can be obtained.
For first light bra, your away and really rockin'.

Super tight stars and focus. I wouldn't be too worried about the very slight elongation I can only see in the corners to the Cats paw... a huge chip which will show everything.

Mate, the image of the cats Paw for only 20min, wow.... who needs to do heaps of hours... not when things come in this good.
Love your Omega.... perfect!! Not a sign of elongation, had this spot on Same with your Cent A, spot on

I feel really happy for you Mike.... this is going to be a great ride for you and all of us looking on.

Great stuff and am staying quietly tuned for your next installments

Go forth and image muchly...

All the best,
Rich

Ah my fellow fast Newt bretheren

So far it appears to be the Holy Grail , as I said to John above, the level of star uniformity is certainly not absolutely perfect but man, I couldn't have hoped for a better first light considering, besides the sensor is so massive and the camera plus CFW so heavy, the design of this thing has held up reasonably well I think?

I will do anther test session at Mums and then hopefully get back out to darker skies and hammer the heavens

Cheers Mike

Originally Posted by CoolhandJo

The Omega is outstanding. Endless possibilities now

Thanks Dr Paulie...just to think of a cool first light at a dark site....

Originally Posted by telecasterguru

Mike,

Great first up images. I love the colour in Cent A.

Gotta love the fast wide field.

Frank

Cheers Frank

You meant Omega Cen I assume

Yeh the colour seamed easy to extract too

1.85 X 1.85deg is a pretty massive field, Centaurus A (in this short light polluted exposure) looks like a football sailing across a football ground

Originally Posted by atalas

Congrats on the new scope Big Mike!!! details in the first light shots are great...looking forward to some splendid work in the near future...hurry up!

ps...loose the spiky artifacts ! lol

Cheers big Louie (I call you that becasue Arnold Swarzenegger said it too Lou Ferrigno in Pumping Iron )

Ok, ok I'm onto it already!!!

Re the spikes they look good on mediam and dimmer stars, we will see what they lookm like on bright stars

Mike

[multiweb (Marc)]

Those shots look really good Mike. You must be relieved Top scope.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by multiweb

Those shots look really good Mike. You must be relieved Top scope.

releived???? RELIEVED???? Man I feel like Lazzarus with a tripple bypass ...err that was John Howard

Mike

[desler]

Exciting time ahead Mike!


Glad it all seems to be coming together for you! Can't wait to see what you produce in better conditions. Have fun!


Darren

[atalas]

Quote:

Cheers big Louie (I call you that becasue Arnold Swarzenegger said it too Lou Ferrigno in Pumping Iron )

Ok, ok I'm onto it already!!!

Re the spikes they look good on mediam and dimmer stars, we will see what they lookm like on bright stars

Mike

lol...hey,wasn't that a great video....remember when Arni was having dinner with Lou and his dad? he was doing his best to psyche Lou out...those dudes were so young then! hehe

I call you big Mike cause your BIG !

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Very promising.

Almost certainly some flexure there ( trivial ) which I would sweat as I'm beginning to think this is very difficult to tame in any scope using a 16803 sensor....

Looks to be a top-shelf instrument.

Cheers Peter

I think you are right regarding the flexure and 16803, it is a fair bit bigger than the 11002 chip and while the residual off star shapes do niggle me, so far they are a far cry from what I was prepared for so all's good ...remember what we would accept back in the eighties, these shots would have been completely undreamed of

Mike

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Congrats mate!! Glad it's working out for you! Those images look very promising indeed! I see what you mean at the corners ... looks a bit like curvature(?) More tinkering needed but I'll bet you're breathing a sigh of relief!

Cheers, Marcus

[batema (Mark)]

Hi MIke,

I have watched your posts with great interest after seeing these scopes a some time ago. I think the images look excellent but was wondering how you managed to bring out the vibrant blue colours in Omega Cent. I (am still learning) select the bluish stars and then boost their coulour. Did you do anything to boost there colours or did the colours come in that way. eXCITING TIMES AHEAD.

Mark

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by marc4darkskies

Congrats mate!! Glad it's working out for you! Those images look very promising indeed! I see what you mean at the corners ... looks a bit like curvature(?) More tinkering needed but I'll bet you're breathing a sigh of relief!

Cheers, Marcus

Breathing easy??? Man, when I did the first reduction in Astroart for the Cats Paw shot I litterally ran around the house saying "it works, it works it works" it made the family laugh and the excitment was making me feel sick! , in this shot the stars were almost perfect across 100% of the frame - likely a function of mirror shift and flexure adding up positively.

Getting perfect stars across 100% of the field is certainly going to be a challenge with this scope design coupled to a massive chip and as Peter suggests, like other high end scopes (even Peter and Greg have had issues in thsi department) I'm not sure it will even be possible across the whole sky? I will tweek again but I have to say so far the levels of residule star image issues shouldn't proclude some speccy shots in the near future

Mike