TAK TSA-102 & Vixen AX103S???

[PlanetMan]

Does anyone know much about this comparatively new refractor by Vixen the: AX103S??

See website below-

http://vixenoptics.com/refractors/ax103.html

It is supposed to be the top of their line made in Japan with 5 years warranty.

If you look carefully at the spec's and the provided optical data it all seems virtually identical to the fabled Takahashi TSA-102 BUT the Vixen includes an in-built field flattner and is close to $800 cheaper than the Tak.

I know Vixen products have been copied for years so I am wondering whether they have decided to give others a taste of the same medicine and are making their own version/direct competitor to the TSA-102?

Any comments would be very welcome

[g__day (Matthew)]

Vixen have a pretty good reputation - but do you seriously see them taking on Tak at the high end - that's a bit of a reach surely? I'd guess only AstroPhysics comes that close to Tak, followed by Televue and TMB maybe? Vixen I thought were discernibly behind all of these players?

[PlanetMan]

Take a look at the website with the optical data and spec's - very similar to the TSA-102 - with a 5 year warranty too boot. I am very curious what others might think as whether this AX103S could be in the same league

[Waxing_Gibbous (Peter)]

I've had good and (very) bad experiences with both brands.
Assuming the price difference isn't huge, I'd opt for the Takahashi simply for it's mechanicals and range of available accessories.
Not sure if the Vixen's quad lens design is to flatten the field or reduce colour. If its the former, it could be a benefit if you plan to do a-p as a decent ff will rum around $250+..

Though if I was going out tomorrow to buy an f8ish 4", I'd get a TV102!

[PlanetMan]

Here is a short thread discussing initial impressions of the Vixen and its relation to Tak

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthrea...2/Main/3779453

[PlanetMan]

No doubt about the TV 102 being a good OTA especially with the exchange rates. Just to clarify one point Vixen has two manufactering streams of refractors. The 'f' series and the 's' series. The much larger 'f' series (close to a dozen models) are mass produced Chinese made refractors which are then rebadged and QC's under the Vixen label and are much cheaper.

Then there is the much smaller range of 's' series refractors - there are only four of them: 81S, 103S, 115S (doublets) and the AX103S (their only triplet or quad depending how you look at it). These refractors are intended as the contemporary replacements of their older Flourite models.
All of these 'S' series refractors are made in Japan with Japanese optics and come with 5 year warranty.

[hotspur (Chris)]

'Planetman' is correct in the details on the Vixen scopes,I used and owned many of the 'S' series.They are very good.I have the 103 ED swt and 81 ED swt.And used other very similar,also used a 102 Tak.If you are trying to decided,I'd go for the tak,as it has slightly better resolving ability.The colour correction is between the Ed 103 and 102 Tak was basically the same.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[PlanetMan]

This is some interesting input but here is something to consider - the Vixen ED103 was on par with the Tak 102 except for the resolving power - I think that is a pretty good compliment to the Vixen which is actually a doublet going up against a triplet Tak - this is my point - this AX103S is a triplet that seems to be squarely aimed at the TSA-102 - I only wish we could find someone who has some first hand experience with the AX103S

[marki]

Why not ask Steve Macey at my astroshop. He imports them.


Mark

[PlanetMan]

In principle a perfect idea but I am wondering about the degree of impartiality. I find Televue stores say TV is the best, Tak stores say Tak is the best etc - I was hoping someone might already have one and could offer some independent consumer feedback

[marki]

Originally Posted by PlanetMan

In principle a perfect idea but I am wondering about the degree of impartiality. I find Televue stores say TV is the best, Tak stores say Tak is the best etc - I was hoping someone might already have one and could offer some independent consumer feedback

Steve is pretty good, he will tell you as he sees it. I think you will be waiting for a long time for shootout between the vixen and tak. It is all information gathered in any case.

Cheers

Mark

[Waxing_Gibbous (Peter)]

Unless you are determined to have this Vixen (nudge-nudge) I think you'd be better off with the Tak.
As:
-It's quite readily available and a known quantity.
-It's mechanics are excellent, as are fit & finish.
-Its essentially part of a system with interchangeable 'bits' for different aplications. There are also a good number of second-hand bits available as well as third party gizmos made specifically for the TSA series.
-You can actually find out how much it costs here. I never have and never will by anything from the Vixen dealer as long as he prices things at $1500-$3000! Daft.

And last but not least (and assuming the price difference is not an issue):
-The TSA's optics are famous for their resolution and colour correction. If you have found a report that shows the Takahashi offering measurably or noticably, superior resolution, to the Vixen, that SHOULD be the end of it!
Its a no-brainer.

[casstony]

Or you could save a bundle and get a Astro-Tech/Sharpstar 106 f/6.5 triplet - performance is close to the Tak even though the Tak is f/8. The 106 has excellent color correction and a high strehl across the visual spectrum and you don't need to buy specially designed, expensive accessories. Just a thought.

[marki]

Originally Posted by Waxing_Gibbous

Unless you are determined to have this Vixen (nudge-nudge) I think you'd be better off with the Tak.
As:
-It's quite readily available and a known quantity.
-It's mechanics are excellent, as are fit & finish.
-Its essentially part of a system with interchangeable 'bits' for different aplications. There are also a good number of second-hand bits available as well as third party gizmos made specifically for the TSA series.
-You can actually find out how much it costs here. I never have and never will by anything from the Vixen dealer as long as he prices things at $1500-$3000! Daft.

And last but not least (and assuming the price difference is not an issue):
-The TSA's optics are famous for their resolution and colour correction. If you have found a report that shows the Takahashi offering measurably or noticably, superior resolution, to the Vixen, that SHOULD be the end of it!
Its a no-brainer.

You have your shops mixed up Peter, astro optical have price ranges not myastroshop. That said I would choose the Tak over the vixen simply because it is a known even if the adaptors were going to take ages to get and cost an arm and leg to buy.

The fourth element in the vixen is seperate from the triplet cell and is only there to flatten the field for AP, it does not have any colour correction function as far as I am aware. I was thinking of buying this scope last year and asked a lot of questions. I imagine that will present its own problems if you want to use a focal reducer, not too sure though. If it is being bought to take pics I think at F7.7 I would probably look at a GSO RC instead as aperture rules.


Mark

[PlanetMan]

Peter - I can't agree with you more as I too find price range of $1500-$3000 very disenchanting when every other astro store clearly state their price. However, as Mark has noted I wasn't actually thinking to buy in NSW anyhow. The real irony is that what impressed me so much about the Vixen AX103s (or Vixen in general) was their transparency in openly listing their specs just like Tak. From my own experience you are hard pressed to find such data freely listed by many other manufacturers (even TV) which would make them accountable if someone independently tested their OTA.

Mark - you mentioned making a lot of inquiries about the AX103S and in the end decided against it - I would be very appreciative if you could elaborate on what you found out?

[marki]

I chose an FLT98CF over the vixen and the 107 APM I was looking at for two reasons,

1. F6.3 was far better suited for my camera (1.78 aspp).
2. I wouldn't have to buy specialised adaptors etc at inflated prices (they really need to come up with a common standard).

From what I was able to find out the vixen is a fair scope for the price I just thought the William optics represented better value for money and was more suited to my needs. As I said if I was choosing between the vixen and the TAK I would go the TAK.

The shop I referred you to was this one.

http://www.myastroshop.com.au/index.asp


Mark

[PlanetMan]

Peter

one question for you:

Initially you mentioned that if you had to pick a f8 refractor you would prefer the TV-102 but later gave a good endorsement for the TSA-102.

Between the Tak and the TV-102 what are your thoughts?

I can't see how the TV will compare as a doublet versus the Tak triplet but in comparison to the Tak the TV-102 is exceptionally good value at the moment in combining a case, tube rings, everbrite diagonal, Plossl and OTA for slightly less than the TSA which at roughly the same price comes with nothing else other than the OTA.

[Waxing_Gibbous (Peter)]

PM,
I'd choose the TV102 simply for its weight and it's simplicity.
It's a very well corrected doublet, as good as it gets really, and while I don't have the weight to-hand, its light for a scope of its FL.
It has a very simple focuser thats as smooth as anything his side of a Feathertouch and cool down time is 5-10 mins.
It's build quality is very high and you'd have to hit it with something hard to scratch the paint.
Against it, it's not as colour free as the Tak, which are famous for their colour correction.

That said, I also agree with Casstony on the Sharpstar / AT 106.
I can't think of a scope that gives as much bang-for-buck. It's essentially colour free and very sharp.
In fact, IMO, there is no better deal in the 4" range than this scope.
It does everything well.

However, at f6.5 its just a little short for pure planetary or lunar work. It will take any magnification you throw at it, but I think the native f8 of the TV and TSA give a distinct advantage when it comes to resolution.

But I ramble!
Between the TV and the Tak, for mostly visual, I'd choose the TV.
For mostly a-p, I'd go the Tak.
For 50/50 - the Sharpstar!
Just to complicate things.