PME Commissioned ... finally!!!

[rogerg (Roger)]

Congrats on getting it Running so well Marcus 1 month on (about 6 nights I think) I'm still doing calibration runs with mine . Checking out the PE again tonight. Then new mapping run after that (perhaps not tonight).

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Originally Posted by rogerg

Congrats on getting it Running so well Marcus 1 month on (about 6 nights I think) I'm still doing calibration runs with mine . Checking out the PE again tonight. Then new mapping run after that (perhaps not tonight).

Thanks Roger! It's worth spending time tinkering - you gain familiarity (that's my excuse anyway ). I'd have done more too if these friggin clouds would go away for more than a night or two. I did notice N-S drift the other night so I may lower the altitude a twitch and re-model (after I get some imaging done!). Creating models is a cinch anyway. With the PME and no dangling cables I'm now comfortable walking away and letting the mount, camera and software do it's thing.

[gregbradley]

That's odd, your model says your aligment is perfect yet there is some drift.

That's what I was finding to some degree. The model albeit with much smaller numbers of points was giving worse results than the drift alignment achieved.

Greg.

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Originally Posted by gregbradley

That's odd, your model says your aligment is perfect yet there is some drift.

That's what I was finding to some degree. The model albeit with much smaller numbers of points was giving worse results than the drift alignment achieved.

Greg.

I have two models actually. I did the original model in TheSky6 and then imported that data into TheSkyX to use the "Supermodel" function (the screen grab on my web site). I then mimicked the TSX supermodel in TS6 as best I could and THAT model says I'm at +123" elevation. The drift was fairly small too - about 7-8 arcsecs over 25 mins - easily guided out. If anything it is a small tweak of less than 1 arcmin that I need. Interestingly, both models agree on azimuth error. If the clouds would go away I could tinker some more but it's worth remembering too that it can be a diminishing returns argument to tinker too much. I think it's worth one more iteration though.

[gregbradley]

So the Sky X has some new functions over the Sky 6. Do you think it is worth the upgrade?

There can be a point of diminishing returns and also starting to go backwards but I am sure you know that.

It looks clear this afternoon, maybe tonight. The moon doesn't rise until 2am.

Greg.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

The Sky X requires another Pinpoint version (more money), Id say the old Sky6 is fine for the obs, thats what I do, Sky X is great for planning imaging runs indoors if like me, you were to be sucked into buying it.

You need to get Automapper running Greg its a dream. I found a decent map run gave polar alignment feedback that allowed me to get within single digit arc seconds within a few tweaks.

[rogerg (Roger)]

Originally Posted by gregbradley

So the Sky X has some new functions over the Sky 6. Do you think it is worth the upgrade?.

Others would differ, but while enjoying some usability features of TSX I have uninstalled it due to several extreme frustrations and some problems with it linking to CCDSoft. I persevered with it for 2 months but the clincher was not being able to have both it and TS6 installed at the same time without problems. I don't think most have the problems I have had.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Originally Posted by rogerg

Others would differ.

I wouldnt, stick with Sky 6.

[gregbradley]

Thanks for the feedback about The SkyX. I'll leave it alone.

I downloaded Automapper II. Have to work out how to use it now.

Do you just click on a bunch of targets on the Sky 6 and it goes to and plate solves?

Greg.

[rogerg (Roger)]

I find the easiest way to use AutoMapperII is to have it generate the list of points and define the horizon (exclusion area) in it's little limits editor. A small amount of practice and its very easy to have it do a 200 point mapping run, even with my tiny ST7 where a lot of plate solves fall due to small FOV.

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Yep AutomapperII is nice for sure. A large mapping run is a piece of cake (unless your dome battery goes flat after about the 230th slew! )

And don't be too hasty dismissing TheSkyX Greg. I've gone through the entire setup and almost the whole shakedown procedure. TSX integrates well with CCDSoft (latest version ...206). It integrated with Automadome and CCDAP nicely as well - no hiccups at all. I have tested plate solves and dome slews & slaving etc only to find out that my nearly 6 year old laptop is just too old to handle the CPU load with everything running. TSX utilises multi core processors so a new laptop is coming soon!! I have reverted to TS6 only because of my old laptop. I am actually writing a review of my experience with TSX and will complete it once my hardware is up to date.

You do not need to buy Pinpoint if you go TSX. The platesolves I did from CCDSoft were at least as accurate (and probably better) than TS6 with the USNO-A2.0 catalogue (once I downloaded and optimised the UCAC3 catalogue that is - for free).

IMO, TSX is worth checking out if you have a reasonably up to date PC! It is much more stable now than it was 6 months ago!!! The new interface alone is very slick too.

Cheers, Marcus

[gregbradley]

Thanks for the data Marcus. So to use the Sky V6 and Automapper 2 I need to download that database?

I use an i7 laptop 64 bit Win 7 with 8gb ram. Its an awesome machine and made processing 16803 images easy. A 1x1 16803 file is 32.4mb so it takes some processing power. With CCDstack 2 I can open as many 1x1 images as I have (haven't had a memory problem yet whereas it was common with a Core Duo 2 and 3 gb ram and Vista or XP).

I did a Precision PEC run last night. The resulting curve was quite small. How was yours? I also did a Polar alignment run with Pempro's polar alignment wizard which seemed reasonably good.

Greg.

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Originally Posted by gregbradley

Thanks for the data Marcus. So to use the Sky V6 and Automapper 2 I need to download that database?

I use an i7 laptop 64 bit Win 7 with 8gb ram. Its an awesome machine and made processing 16803 images easy. A 1x1 16803 file is 32.4mb so it takes some processing power. With CCDstack 2 I can open as many 1x1 images as I have (haven't had a memory problem yet whereas it was common with a Core Duo 2 and 3 gb ram and Vista or XP).

I did a Precision PEC run last night. The resulting curve was quite small. How was yours? I also did a Polar alignment run with Pempro's polar alignment wizard which seemed reasonably good.

Greg.

No, you don't need another database to use AutomapperII. However, using the USNO-A2.0 catalogue (in TS6) improves the chances of a plate solve succeeding in areas of sky low in stars (ie away from the galactic equator). If you want it I have it on DVD somewhere.

That laptop of yours would run TSX without issue IMO.

My PE after correction appears to be a sin surve around +- 0.5 arcsec. I expected better.

[gregbradley]

Thanks Marcus.

Nice low PE result there. It is in reality at the upper end of what an amateur mount does don't you think?

Greg.

[rogerg (Roger)]

Marcus & Greg (& other PME users),

How good is your poining accuracy after power-down and power-up between nights?

I'm finding with my current model it is off by about 180 arc seconds (consistently - across whole sky). With a previous model it was only off by about 30 arc seconds, but I did probably only try it a couple of times back then.

From what I understand I shouldn't need to do a shot mapping run and also should not sync. Yet at the start of a night I need to some how tell it "tonight, you're 180 arc seconds off - move north 180 arc sec and you'll be right for the night!" - exactly a sync.

Wondering what others find.

Thanks,
Roger.

[gregbradley]

I haven't really made a big model yet. The biggest has been about 20 points or less. It was pointing fairly accurately after a couple of points. Object about 1/8th away from centre of the screen image.

I don't see it vary from night to night. I thought that did not change once you powered down and powered up.

I find go-tos are usually an indication of PA error mostly. How good is your polar alignment?

I found drift aligning using the CCD every night for 30 minutes and tweaking it slightly to improve it a bit more over several nights paid dividends.

Greg.

[rogerg (Roger)]

Originally Posted by gregbradley

I haven't really made a big model yet. The biggest has been about 20 points or less. It was pointing fairly accurately after a couple of points. Object about 1/8th away from centre of the screen image.

I don't see it vary from night to night. I thought that did not change once you powered down and powered up.

I find go-tos are usually an indication of PA error mostly. How good is your polar alignment?

I found drift aligning using the CCD every night for 30 minutes and tweaking it slightly to improve it a bit more over several nights paid dividends.

Greg.

PA is pretty good, the rate of drift is about 0.2 arc seconds/minute, so it's many minutes before it's noticeable. TPoint is esimating it in the range of 0.3' - 0.5' from the pole in each direction.

Go To accuracy per se is very good - the offset is repeatable, an offset for all goto's. For example the first and all objects will be off by the same amount and direction as every other subsequent object. I can move anywhere in the sky and have the object centered almost exactly where the last object was on the chip (within about 10 pixels of the last object).

I'm only just starting to learn the stuff I need to in order to get this working smoothly, so think I'll work at refining things like the initial synchronise, pc clock, more points in the TPoint model (currently 120) and so on.

[gregbradley]

How do mean work on the initial synchronise? The first star you synch to?

How stable is your pier? Is it possible it shifted very slightly or perhaps you bumped your scope?

Sounds like you've got it working pretty nice.

With such a large Tpoint model have you activated protrack?

It may improve things a tad more. I just did a fresh PEC using Precision PEC and checked the polar alignment I did using Pempro (it seemed pretty perfect) and I am getting noticeably improved autoguiding. Quite low errors. Yeah!

Greg.

Greg.

[rogerg (Roger)]

Originally Posted by gregbradley

How do mean work on the initial synchronise? The first star you synch to?

I only ever synchronise before doing a TPoint mapping run, never once I've got a good mapping run, so here I'm refering to the initial synchronisation when for all intensive purposes the mount is new out of the box.

Originally Posted by gregbradley

How stable is your pier? Is it possible it shifted very slightly or perhaps you bumped your scope?

I very much doubt that's a possibility. That's the kind of thing which is modeled out by TPoint, there's no reason I can think that the pier would move differently during the day than at night (if it moves at all) (for example being knocked).

Originally Posted by gregbradley

Sounds like you've got it working pretty nice.

overall yeah, I'm quite happy with it, certainly on the night I do a good TPoint mapping run things are as perfect as could be expected. Just a few niggling things to sort out.

Originally Posted by gregbradley

With such a large Tpoint model have you activated protrack?

I'd call 120 pionts moddest. Large, and sufficient for ProTrack to work well is 250+ from my reading and advice from others. I do have ProTrack enabled and it works well even with my 120 points for goto, but I haven't enabled tracking adjustments in ProTrack except for one test, as I'm quite sure I need that 250+ points for that to function well. 250 isn't a problem, I just haven't had a spare night to do it, or been sure enough I'll keep the model for several nights - I'm still finding new thinngs to try and so throwing away models frequently.

Looking at it now I think my attempt at a Short Mapping Run last night has messed up my model so need to do a new one I think, maybe. oh well, lots to learn.

[gregbradley]

I tried activating Protrack the other night after creating a 17 point T-point model manually (automapper II was not able to identify locations, I installed a bigger catalogue and need to read the manual which is hard to find).

I found it worsened autoguiding a LOT. So you must be right it needs to be a large T-point model before worrying about Protrack.

Getting time precise, getting lat/long precise, getting Polar alignment precise and getting PEC well mapped are far more beneficial.

I got a very accurate Polar Alignment using PemPro's polar alignment wizard. It worked so well I think I will buy the program just for that feature. It would be awesomely helpful if you setup and broke down your setup each time. It makes CCD drift alignment a lot faster to get a lot more accurately. You get that part right and then it has a final small adjustment to get it even closer after that. Very nice.
After using it for about 30 minutes T-point after 17 mappings is saying my PA is off by only about .8 of an adjustment tick in both axes
ad my gotos are very very close to being centred on the CCD.

PemPro claims it is supposed to be a bit more accurate than Precision PEC because it takes into account if your camera is not completely square whereas Precision PEC just tells you to get your camera square.

Greg.