Significant Home Improvement Of The Family Unit or Not?

[AstroGuy]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

And I challenge you to say that none of your household stuff like your watch or your phone don't have a computer in it as an example. Some are unwilling to see that computers are responsible for everything now days they are responsible for all we use these days their influence is everywhere. And cars without computers are quickly becoming vintage specimens that are collectors items hardly the norm.

Hey Warren,

On a slightly different note....

Did you actually get to find out if the moon was closer to the earth somewhere in the past the way you perceived it? If so, was mankind about back then?


Regards...

[casstony]

The computer/internet can be especially valuable to people suffering from disability due to old age or disease. It reduces the sense of isolation, and it's a resource useful for finding ways to better cope with illness when modern medicine fails.

So while many of us would not miss the internet too much (and probably should spend less time on the net), it is a useful tool and theraputic for a significant percentage of the population.

[AstroGuy]

Originally Posted by casstony

The computer/internet can be especially valuable to people suffering from disability due to old age or disease. It reduces the sense of isolation, and it's a resource useful for finding ways to better cope with illness when modern medicine fails.

So while many of us would not miss the internet too much (and probably should spend less time on the net), it is a useful tool and theraputic for a significant percentage of the population.

Yeah, internet good, addiction bad

I know how you are seeing this from your point of view, my concern was why did we pour so much money into it, fight wars over it, scare the daylights with arms races, and basically take human life for it. Was it all worth it? when the computer could of been achieved for the benefit of mankind without loss of life, destruction and agony.

Function = same, only difference is computer.


Regards...

[rmcconachy]

Originally Posted by AstroGuy

They also had refrigeration back then too, no different, function = same as today.

Not in homes they didn't, they had iceboxes which weren't as cold as current freezers even if you did keep reloading them with ice. The difference is important if you want to preserve food for a lengthy period. Refrigerators in 1911 were massive things used in factories (sometimes).

I'm afraid that I do not understand your last post. Where does the "...fight wars over it, scare the daylights with arms races, and basically take human life for it" come from? Some new technologies and technical improvements have come from defense research, e.g., radar and a lot of aeronautical stuff, but that was a consequence of the way history unfolded rather than because it had to be that way. Charles Babbage was playing with computers more than a century ago. Neither vacuum tubes nor transistors were invented by defense research (the latter was invented in the Bell Telephone Labs). Tools can be used for good and bad purposes and progress can happen in peace or during war. I'm sorry but I don't get where you are coming from.

[AstroGuy]

Originally Posted by rmcconachy

Not in homes they didn't, they had iceboxes which weren't as cold as current freezers even if you did keep reloading them with ice. The difference is important if you want to preserve food for a lengthy period. Refrigerators in 1911 were massive things used in factories (sometimes).

I'm afraid that I do not understand your last post. Where does the "...fight wars over it, scare the daylights with arms races, and basically take human life for it" come from? Some new technologies and technical improvements have come from defense research, e.g., radar and a lot of aeronautical stuff, but that was a consequence of the way history unfolded rather than because it had to be that way. Charles Babbage was playing with computers more than a century ago. Neither vacuum tubes nor transistors were invented by defense research (the latter was invented in the Bell Telephone Labs). Tools can be used for good and bad purposes and progress can happen in peace or during war. I'm sorry but I don't get where you are coming from.

Mate...they had Ice powered fridges. Ice used to come from the mountains on horse driven carts to the towns. People used to buy Ice blocks so they could power their fridges on it.

Function = same, only difference is computer.

point is, they still had fridges. same function = food preservation.

If you want to know where I'm coming from:

If you take a household from 1911 and compare it to one exactly the same as today minus the computer, only difference is the computer.
You can perform the comparison at any part of the living condition spectrum and the difference will always be the computer. This is the achievement of man in 100 years. But look at the price we paid to have it in our homes, and was it worth it?

It is a little confusing, if you compare a household of 1911 against one of equal caliber of today, the difference is the computer.

Function = same, only difference is computer.


Regards...

[Draconis (Mick)]

How did they keep these ice blocks frozen on the back of a horse drawn cart as they went from town to town? Was this just a winter enterprise reserved for those people lucky enough to live in towns surrounded by snow capped mountains? The rest of Australia just had to suffer without their ice powered fridges i guess?

Did you dream this?

[casstony]

I think you're getting cause and effect mixed up Eugenio.

Wars are initiated to serve the selfish interests of individuals or nations, to gain more power and more stuff. The pace of technological development quickens during war motivated by the struggle for survival. We don't fight wars in order to get better machines, but better machines can be a by-product of war.

Humans are only slightly more evolved than other animals on the planet - we've got to move a lot further away from our primal instincts before an end to wars is in sight. The competitive nature that served us well living in small tribal/family groups is not well suited to modern society.

[marki]

Originally Posted by AstroGuy

If you want to know where I'm coming from:

If you take a household from 1911 and compare it to one exactly the same as today minus the computer, only difference is the computer.
You can perform the comparison at any part of the living condition spectrum and the difference will always be the computer. This is the achievement of man in 100 years. But look at the price we paid to have it in our homes, and was it worth it?


Regards...

So you still take a dump out the back do you???? Any fool can see there are a lot more differences then just a computer between a home built in 1911 and one built today. Wars were never about bloody computers, oil, inbred royals, mad dictators yes but never computers.

Mark

[AstroGuy]

Originally Posted by casstony

The computer/internet can be especially valuable to people suffering from disability due to old age or disease. It reduces the sense of isolation, and it's a resource useful for finding ways to better cope with illness when modern medicine fails.

So while many of us would not miss the internet too much (and probably should spend less time on the net), it is a useful tool and theraputic for a significant percentage of the population.

I totally agree.

Don't get me wrong, not saying we have not benefited from the computer. But just suppose most of the resources that went into developing the computer were instead used to help those people you mention instead? Would those people be in the same position they are in now? probably not I think.


Regards...

[AstroGuy]

Originally Posted by marki

So you still take a dump out the back do you???? Any fool can see there are a lot more differences then just a computer between a home built in 1911 and one built today. Wars were never about bloody computers, oil, inbred royals, mad dictators yes but never computers.

Mark

No mate, but I can see how easy it was for you to see it that way


Regards...

[AstroGuy]

Originally Posted by Draconis

How did they keep these ice blocks frozen on the back of a horse drawn cart as they went from town to town? Was this just a winter enterprise reserved for those people lucky enough to live in towns surrounded by snow capped mountains? The rest of Australia just had to suffer without their ice powered fridges i guess?

Did you dream this?

They started from the mountains with very large blocks. By the time they reached the towns they were smaller blocks. Not saying it was efficient

And in Australia we had Spinifex coolers and air con, and if you were real lucky you paid people to fan you

[AstroGuy]

Originally Posted by casstony

I think you're getting cause and effect mixed up Eugenio.

Wars are initiated to serve the selfish interests of individuals or nations, to gain more power and more stuff. The pace of technological development quickens during war motivated by the struggle for survival. We don't fight wars in order to get better machines, but better machines can be a by-product of war.

Humans are only slightly more evolved than other animals on the planet - we've got to move a lot further away from our primal instincts before an end to wars is in sight. The competitive nature that served us well living in small tribal/family groups is not well suited to modern society.

Definitely, we need to "evolve" already.

Regards...

[AstroGuy]

Originally Posted by casstony

I think you're getting cause and effect mixed up Eugenio.

Wars are initiated to serve the selfish interests of individuals or nations, to gain more power and more stuff. The pace of technological development quickens during war motivated by the struggle for survival. We don't fight wars in order to get better machines, but better machines can be a by-product of war.

Humans are only slightly more evolved than other animals on the planet - we've got to move a lot further away from our primal instincts before an end to wars is in sight. The competitive nature that served us well living in small tribal/family groups is not well suited to modern society.

Correct me If I'm wrong, I think the original computer was stonehenge? Now You could argue this and say the organic brain was. I Don't think however that stonehenge was a by product of war, only a device developed for the quest for knowledge and the understanding of the stars, planets and possibly the universe (that we know of).


Regards...

[Davi5678 (Dave)]

With just a cursory glance at the history of humanity, you will find warfare has been the constant since the dawn of time, it is also a fundamental motivator in the development of technology from throwing rocks at each other to ICBM's.
If you could point out a period in history in which there was an outbreak of 'world peace' then your argument might have some validity.
The common and popular modern misconception is that the world is supposed to be 'peaceful' and we're all meant to get along is just Walt Disney claptrap.

[marki]

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[rmcconachy]

Originally Posted by AstroGuy

If you take a household from 1911 and compare it to one exactly the same as today minus the computer, only difference is the computer.
You can perform the comparison at any part of the living condition spectrum and the difference will always be the computer. This is the achievement of man in 100 years. But look at the price we paid to have it in our homes, and was it worth it?

It is a little confusing, if you compare a household of 1911 against one of equal caliber of today, the difference is the computer.

Personally, I'll take the drug cabinet as the biggest difference. Computers are great tools but antibiotics have saved a huge number of lives. The amount of effort (money and time) invested in computing research as a share of the total amount of research and development across all areas is actually very small. Computers are important tools, crucial for some things, but I disagree that they are "...the achievement of man in 100 years." You've been given several other examples but you've waved them off because something sort of similar but often not functionally equivalent existed a century ago. If you want to play that game then scratch the computer too since slide rules date from the 17th century and they are kinda, sorta, almost, about the same and my great grandfather had one in his house a century ago. He didn't know how to use it - and I cannot remember how to any more either - but he had one! I guess that means we've gone nowhere during the last one hundred years.

[Draconis (Mick)]

Originally Posted by AstroGuy

Correct me If I'm wrong, I think the original computer was stonehenge? Now You could argue this and say the organic brain was. I Don't think however that stonehenge was a by product of war, only a device developed for the quest for knowledge and the understanding of the stars, planets and possibly the universe (that we know of).


Regards...

There is no evidence as to what the function of Stonehenge was, if there was a function at all. It might have just been a very fancy garden centrepiece for all we know..

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by marki

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I dropped out long ago I was starting to get a headache from those bricks in the wall.

[rmcconachy]

Originally Posted by AstroGuy

Correct me If I'm wrong, I think the original computer was stonehenge?

It depends on how you define the word "computer". As I alluded to above, Charles Babbage built the first known programmable calculating machines in the early/mid 1800s. All known calculating devices predating them were fixed function (including slide rules). Electronic computers came much later. Have a look at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer> for a reasonable summary of the computer's history.

[JohnG (John)]

I know a nice man in a white coat who love to talk computers with you.............