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  #41  
Old 12-11-2009, 06:43 AM
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I agree....sweet.
Certainly looks the business!

Now get that baby well centred

Steve
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  #42  
Old 15-11-2009, 09:15 PM
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Stepper system working off the laptop. Phew!
After months of research (and a bit of guesswork, with a lot of dreaming), the baby has come alive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nncvO3ZgguM

It took a bit of fiddling to get it to move. All of the initial settings had it moving so little, you couldn't see it move.
These movements are amplified to show the functionality of it.

Still deciding if Mach3 is "go" for using it to control the scope, as they say Mach3 doesn't really work well on laptops (due to the power saving features).

This is using an eBay bought expresscard (PCI-e) parallel port.

I know the system is portable now, but I tried the power inverter the other day and the power supply unit didn't like it.
Unsure if it was the Wattage rating, or if the modified sine wave had something to do with it. The inverter was rated (continuously) just above what the power supply was rated at.
So still have to think of another alternative for power.
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  #43  
Old 15-11-2009, 09:33 PM
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hmmm
Looks good, but too much hardware for what it is supposed to do, IMO (for telescope control, of course).

Bartels works on DOS machine, with only 8 transistors (4 per motor) to drive 2 steppers (in micro-stepping mode), plus it supports additional steppers for focus and field rotation.
However, you mentioned earlier you want much more than that (tracking satellites etc) so all this is probably justified for you.

Your problem with PS is most likely rating. But if inverter is not sinusoidal (cheaper models output square wave) then the rectified voltage from them is too low.

Last edited by bojan; 15-11-2009 at 09:48 PM.
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  #44  
Old 04-05-2010, 05:50 PM
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Have done some thinking.
I finally bought the mount hardware (aluminium bar) for the gear drive and also bought a few little electric pieces too.
Had a play with 3DMAX to get an idea how the ALT drive should look like.
You know when I wanted to do this mount, I had writers block and couldn't find the materials. 2 days ago, it just came to me and just made it in 3DMAX in 1 day. Materials were also found today as well.
Do you know how hard it is to find thick aluminium (or flat bar)? Finally, the supplier was just around the corner from me, so now if I stuff up, I got a very local supplier. Usually they are the other side of town. I had to buy 4 metres of the stuff though.

Taken me 6 months (money and time) to get things together, but decided to take a slightly different route.
Whilst the breakout board will be used for testing, I've decided to utilise a 555 timer circuit. Just went and bought a couple of kits today from jaycar and bought a few little extras if I need to modify the circuit if needed.

Going to manually control pulses to the driver for the stepper. Which is always the way I wanted to do it, just my brain couldn't get around "how to do it" the way I wanted. Auto driving it (computer software driven) was a great learning tool. How and what to adjust and how it affected the stepper.
The computer software gave me a problem, if I need to slow down or speed up or just reverse it made it cumbersome to edit finitely instantly.
No software was out there for just what I wanted.

Doing the kit, just so I can learn about the timer circuit and stuff.

Hopefully I can come up with a product soon.

3DMAX concept : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRMDifNM9kc
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  #45  
Old 05-05-2010, 10:59 PM
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Had the best ever success tonight.

I built the Pulse Generator and it worked first crack. Then had the thought to test the output, via a speaker, that worked.

Ok, next step the stepper driver.

Unbelievable success.....The pulse generator powered the driver for the stepper and the stepper turned accordingly to the frequency.
It is a little bit dirty on it's operation, but the test was a little bit past expectation.
The power I was using was 12V with 300ma. Unsure if that was enough current, but it seemed to work fine.

The stepper drove fast and slow enough, but there was a slight issue with the graduations of it. It ramped up and down quite fast, it was a little hard to control the speed. The finite control was missing.

But all in all, I just didn't believe it to work. Pretty stoked.

Now to modify the smoothness of it.
Also not sure how to get "reverse" yet, it's seeming to show a double pulse to turn it in reverse. I won't do that for a bit, as changing speed in one direction is ok, as long as the object is moving.
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  #46  
Old 11-05-2010, 09:52 PM
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I now have a working Pulse Generator, and a stepper motor system working in both Forward/Backward directions (CW/CCW).
Took a few brainstorms and a few forum postings later (electronics forum), that gave me the concept for the other direction I needed.
I already had CCW direction, but failed to get CW.
I needed a 5V (with a 2.6K resistor) constant signal on the DIR port of the driver, to get the direction change.
I thought I had to have a second pulse for that, but obviously not.

So it looks like now, 2 x pulse generators will drive 2 x drivers independant of one another.
It's more the calibration of it now. (how to setup the slowness of it all and how much speed it up by manual means via a potentiometer).
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  #47  
Old 17-05-2010, 12:06 AM
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Hi All,

I've been avidly following this thread as I've been working on a stepper control system without computer control for a month, and thought I'd share my findings.

Below is a control system for a forkmount as I converted my 8" dob to a forkmount. Pics to come soon.

First of all, I'm not sure if its been mentioned before, but i found an excellent stepper driver from Allegro Systems on this aussie web site http://www.littlebirdelectronics.com.au (A4983)
it is amongst the best value for money i've seen so far and works a treat. (I had a look at ocean controls as well, but that was a bit too much for my budget)
The A4983 has built in chopping circuitry to limit current draw when idle, microstelling upto 1/16th step (3200 steps/rev for a 1.8deg motor), drives upto 3A, has a current limiting pot), extremely small footprint, digital logic inputs for EN, SLEEP, DIR, microstep, reset, etc and the list goes on.

I wanted to start motorizing my scope using discrete control and not software, so I worked on a control system using digital logic.
I came across some really good electronics and hardware suppliers (australia-rsonline.com , farnell.com.au, littlebirdelectronics.com.au) for all rare components and handy kits.

I started with a Silicon oscillator and found the LTC6900 to be perfect. It is a 5 pin SOT-23 IC, has 3 settable divisions for its master freq, uses just one external resistor to set the frequency, and is precise, extremely small (SOT-23, had to buy a breakout board from littlebird).

My Concept was simple. the Silicon oscillator generates square waves at a fixed freq (variable with a trimpot to arrive at final freq), this is fed to a freq divider CD4060, three frequencies (1/5, 1/6, 1/8th) are fed to a multiplexer (CD4051) that has three channel selection control inputs and 8 channel inputs. (i used only two bits as I needed only one of three frequencies).

I planned to use a hand held controller that has 5 buttons
CW Hi Speed (high speed slew)
CW Lo Speed (micro slew)
CCW Hi Speed
CCW Lo Speed
Tracking (fixed dir)

(only 3 frequencies are reqd as CCW requires a change only in DIR bit)

Dilemna was switch control as I had to control five different variables with one spst button each.
I therefore built a truth table to see what 5 bit nibble I needed for each of the above buttons.

the 5 bit nibble was
X,Y - Mux channel selection
EN - Stepper driver enable (when not enabled, driver disables output circuitry internally thereby conserving power)
INHIBIT - inhibit / strobe input for Mux
DIR - Simple High/Low at driver's DIR input for CW/CCW

Therefore, I settled on a 20key encoder (MM74C923) that I bought from Farnell. This has 5 bit outputs which is what I wanted, built in debounce circuitry, built in multiple key control, (if you press two buttons ).
So from the datasheet, i just chose the 5 bit outputs that I wanted as per my truth table, found the corresponding key number, wired it up to spst switches and it worked.
My criteria was that when no key is pressed, the stepper and Mux enable inputs are disabled. I achieved this by setting the correct high/low states on the EN / INH pins using the encoder.

I salvaged a 1.8deg hybrid unipolar motor from a fax machine which proved to be perfect as it came with a timing driver and belt. just wired as a Bipolar. still testing on whether to use one half winding for higher torque instead of full winding.

a general purpose PCB from jaycar, and I got the whole controller and driver working.

I use a 9V battery with a 7805 regulator for logic supply, and a 78T12 3A fixed 12v regulator for the motor supply (2 x 9V batt at this stage)

I made the fork mount entirely out of wood ( i know its not the best choice), but I'm handy with wood, so it worked well.
I got two self aligning bearings from a bearing supplier in dandenong, a 20mm steel shaft ($12) from CSC in Clayton.
I used 35mmx90mm pine sleepers (bunnings) for the fork, but had double sided cladding with 8mm ply to reinforce it, and its extremely rigid with no flex under full load.
I bought two 20mm flanges from australia-rsonline.com on either side of the fork that slides onto the shaft so that minimizes perpendicular deflection due to load.
I'm just waiting to get my timing wheel from small parts and have to figure out how to mate it to the steel shaft.

I setup jumpers for microstepping selection on the PCB and can easily switch between full, half, 1/4, 1/8th and 1/16th microstepping depending on what speed I need.

I had a few posts on Pololu's web site as I was using their driver, and they gave the idea of using a PICAXE microcontroller, and programming it with the free software or BASIC.
Thats my next step to computerize it or atleast add position sensing, gradual acceleration for slew, etc.

I have learnt a lot from this exercise that took me about a month, and although there are fully functional systems out there like the Bartels, I thought I'd share my ideas for someone who might be looking for a system like this.

To achieve accurate tracking, I need to ensure there are no missed steps, the motor is not overloaded, clock is stable, and adjust the master freq until the tracking rate is achieved.

One more bit that I wanted to share is that I built a Digital Oscilloscope from a Kit sold at littlebirdelectronics. I bought the $55 kit that comes with everything with the MCU already soldered, but all else including around 40 SMD parts need to be soldered.
after 6 hours of soldering the 40 odd SMD's, (desoldering braid was invaluable), it worked straight away, and was well worth the effort and price.
It has a built in frequency counter so I can see what my clock and divider frequencies are, and more oscilloscope features that I don't really use. they sell a no soldering required kit for 70 odd.

I'd welcome feedback on my ideas and criticism as well.

Thanks
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  #48  
Old 17-05-2010, 09:01 AM
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Alistairsam is the stepper controller you are using the Easydriver? If so the price from littlebird seems fairly good. If you have not found them already have a look at Sparkfun (www.sparkfun.com) for lot's of odd bit's and links to the homepage for the easydriver etc. I use the easydrivers drivers driven by an Arduino, I've not yet tried Pic's. The Arduino is a bit awkward for this as it does neatly do variable frequency but relies on configuring a timer based interrupt - simple enough but I've not yet worked through the consequences of using multiple interupts (eg running a second driver, hardware interupt's to read optical encoders etc). I'm waiting for a board to arrive to make up a DAC based stepper driver which should allow me to feed relatively clean sine waves into the steppers which should give very good control. I've chickened out from doing those on veroboard.

I've got a long term project in the corner at home to make a horseshoe fork for a 12" skywatcher. Some parts have gone well but it's not as smooth as I want in the horseshoe bearing and too much flex in the gearing mount's so I've put it aside while I learn some more.

Bob
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  #49  
Old 17-05-2010, 10:24 AM
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Hi Bob,

the stepper controller i'm using is not the easydriver. I had a look at that one, but it can only microstep till 1/8th. It also uses a chip from Allegro, the A3967.
The A4983 is at http://www.littlebirdelectronics.com...r-Carrier.html and is $15. Delivery is from Sydney, so is quick.

the A4983 has 1/6th stepping which in tests has easily noticeable smoothness compared to 1/8th. So I might use that for tracking and micro slew and digitally switch to 1/4th, 1/2 or full stepping for high speed slew which should give me a broad enough range.

I'm pretty sure the PICAXE's have build in DAC's, and from what I've seen, they look very easy to work with.
Voltage regulation made a significant difference with the motor's rotational smoothness, and if you have a look at the decay modes at 1/16th step in the A4983 datasheet, its quite close to a pure sine wave.
I'm not sure if sparkfun has an australian site, but I noticed they were US based.
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  #50  
Old 17-05-2010, 11:05 AM
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alistairsam thanks for that info. Something else for me to look at. 1/16 stepping would be nice.

Sparkfun is US based but orders generally arrive with 5 or 6 business day's (far better than some local suppliers). Not so fast on their custom PCB service but that's the nature of the way it works.

Bob
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  #51  
Old 09-06-2010, 11:33 PM
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Hi,

I've got a video showing the stepper controller and the 5 buttons that I wanted in my scope control.

its at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldKXewyt7X8

motor jitter is because the clock pulses are not synced with button depresses. will be fixed later. the 5 button functions are
high speed CW slew, high speed CCW slew, micro adj CW, micro adj CCW, tracking.
does'nt incorporate encoders at this stage. something to be added later on.
I wanted an autonomous simple but accurate hand held controller, hence this design.
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  #52  
Old 17-06-2010, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hikerbob View Post
Sparkfun is US based but orders generally arrive with 5 or 6 business day's (far better than some local suppliers). Not so fast on their custom PCB service but that's the nature of the way it works.

Bob
Hi Bob,

could you tell me how long they take for delivering custom PCB's once you submit the files and roughly how much it costs.
are there similar priced sources in aus for one-off pcb's?
did you use Eagle pcb s/w?
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  #53  
Old 01-07-2010, 10:26 AM
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replaced my previous discrete digital component based stepper controller with a picaxe microcontroller to perform same functions high speed, low speed and tracking.
have included acceleration for high speed slews to 24000Hz at 1/16 microstepping, thats around 450 rpm.

the picaxe is an extremely easy to use microcontroller, uses basic to program, does not need a programmer, just uses 3 pins from the serial port and very inexpensive. recommended for anyone looking at microcontrollers. the one used here is a picaxe 28X2 running at 16Mhz clock and stepper is driven with the a4983 stepper driver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO68oe5R-Ws

extremely easy to adapt for a motorized focusser as well.

Last edited by alistairsam; 01-07-2010 at 02:52 PM.
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  #54  
Old 04-07-2010, 01:41 PM
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Hi All

I have re-visited this thread after about 12 months to see what everyone is doing with stepper motors.

It prompted me to get out my old Silicon Chip motor drive board from 1997 (mentioned in an earlier post) and see if it still worked. Well I plugged it into the computer and supplied power. Then ran the old programs that once worked quite well. Absolutely nothing worked! The program locked up and needed a hard reset.

I checked out the board as well as possible. I had lost all the drawings, article and circuits. And replaced every component. Still no go.

After scratching my head I booted the computer up in DOS 7.0 from a DVD and retried. Yes everything worked again as before.

I checked out my Basic derived software and did some research and discovered the BASIC commands "OUT" and "IN" to directly address the computer ports only work on DOS based systems. I think it worked on Windows 98 last time I checked but I do not have a Windows 98 installation any more.

This means that I need to do away with parallel port control and find another way to talk to the board with my XP system and Windows 7 64 bit. Further the none of the old compiled BASIC programs I have run in a 64 bit system.

Has anyone used Windows XP to drive equipment from a parallel port?

Barry
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  #55  
Old 04-07-2010, 02:35 PM
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Spanrz (Brett)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alistairsam View Post
Loving the system. That's what I had sorta had in mind, but a little beyond me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrykgerdes View Post
This means that I need to do away with parallel port control and find another way to talk to the board with my XP system and Windows 7 64 bit. Further the none of the old compiled BASIC programs I have run in a 64 bit system.

Has anyone used Windows XP to drive equipment from a parallel port?

Barry
Ahhh the new tech vs old tech...... You can still get parallel port infrastructure, but it's very limited now.
There is software to use parallel ports in XP, but you would have to use something like a CNC style of system, or think "industrial".
I have used MACH3 with great success, bit fiddly to setup, it works they way I wanted. However, I haven't got it to allow for variances, so if you needed to move it (manually adjust), it is a little tricky. But the basis of using it, to see if it would drive a stepper system off the PC and it did. Very happy, just the finer adjustments are a bit of pain.

I have a new PC (i7), which does not have a parallel interface. You can buy a Expresscard with parallel port (which I have), but you then have to buy a expresscard slot interface for the PC.
The cheapie USB to parallel ports don't work, unless you have USB software to drive it. I have tried tirelessly to find out about this, not many people produce software on what we want. And not many produce software other than "printer driver".
There is one local guy who sells stuff on eBay (usb to parallel), but his interface is somewhat cumbersome and not supported all that well. His software is used for driving stepper motors, there isn't much adjustment in his code. Just that it works (bare bones)
I think you would have to be a software engineer to code up a software interface. Bit like ASCOM.

Sometimes, I surf youtube insight of inspiration, to see how others have done it. Moreso, if people have done it and how cumbersome the system works.
I know some people hate youtube, but I use it like a tool for everything and anything. It is a great learning tool.
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  #56  
Old 04-07-2010, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alistairsam View Post
replaced my previous discrete digital component based stepper controller with a picaxe microcontroller to perform same functions high speed, low speed and tracking.
have included acceleration for high speed slews to 24000Hz at 1/16 microstepping, thats around 450 rpm.

the picaxe is an extremely easy to use microcontroller, uses basic to program, does not need a programmer, just uses 3 pins from the serial port and very inexpensive. recommended for anyone looking at microcontrollers. the one used here is a picaxe 28X2 running at 16Mhz clock and stepper is driven with the a4983 stepper driver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO68oe5R-Ws

extremely easy to adapt for a motorized focusser as well.
Yes, I found picaxe insanely cheap and easy to use too, the 28X2 at 16mhz ($20 odd), despite the (free) interpreted basic is so fast, it doesnt matter.

They have a USB interface cable too. I cant believe the grief ppl go through with C and generic PICs.
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  #57  
Old 21-02-2011, 01:08 PM
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Hi,

I picked up some second hand stepper motors from a sunday market at wantirna, vic for $2 each. pics attached.
the guy had 20 or so motors and has heaps more.

my question was regarding current rating and motor drivers.
i'm using a TI DRV8824 driver thats rated for 24V/2A max.

as in the pics, below are the motor ratings for the ones i got
6.0V/phase - 0.85A / phase
1.8V/phase - 3A / phase
5.1V/phase - 1A / phase
3V , 2.3ohm coil Res
3v, 3.5ohm coil res.

as my driver is rated 2A, i should be able to drive the 1st and 3rd motor in the list.
but how about the rest?
the minimum voltage for my driver is 8V. so does that mean I can't use the 1.8V/3A motor?
is the current rating calculated as I=E/R for the last two? so 1.3A and 850mA for the last two?

thanks
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  #58  
Old 21-02-2011, 02:42 PM
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All those are low voltage motors.
However, PWM block with current sensing should work as a current source.. so as long as the driver is not overloaded (1.6A) you should be OK.
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  #59  
Old 21-02-2011, 02:49 PM
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In most cases, you can go well over the rated or stated voltage of a stepper, it's the maximum current that you can't exceed.

As an example. I have some steppers that have a stated maximum voltage of 5.1 volts but they run on a stepper controller that provides a maximum of 50V.

If you know the inductance of the stepper as you can then calculate the maximum voltage it will handle. The formula is:

max voltage = 32 * sqrt (inductance).

For the motors I have, the inductance is 2.8mh so maximum voltage is 53V.
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  #60  
Old 21-02-2011, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowyskiesau View Post
In most cases, you can go well over the rated or stated voltage of a stepper, it's the maximum current that you can't exceed.

As an example. I have some steppers that have a stated maximum voltage of 5.1 volts but they run on a stepper controller that provides a maximum of 50V.

If you know the inductance of the stepper as you can then calculate the maximum voltage it will handle. The formula is:

max voltage = 32 * sqrt (inductance).

For the motors I have, the inductance is 2.8mh so maximum voltage is 53V.
Be careful with this ...
The maximum voltage that can be applied to motor coil is dependent not only on inductance but also on PWM (or stepping) frequency.
The max coil current shouldn't be exceeded, though.
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