Mounts - the expensive ones

[h0ughy (David)]

Here i sit, broken hearted, paid a penny and only....... have several things on my mind. one of them is this:

of the mounts out there what are the pro's and cons of the following from users that actually do have them:

• Losmandy Titan with gemini
  
• Astrophysics 1200
  
• Celestron CGE pro
  
• Takahashi em500
  
• Takahashi Em400
  

really i am after bang for bucks, with the US dollar being at parity some things are looking more "affordable"

i was dabbling in getting a loan and going the full paramount ME and getting the dome fully automated - then i woke up from my impending death by fireing squad by SWMBO. So i am resigned to the fact that i will be getting the automated dome rotation, but as to the upgrading of my mount????

There are options abound - some include the Titan at an attractive price of under 8K with the new gemini with a payload capacity of 45kg, I have seen the celestron mount around this price as well, and more fuel to the fire is that the astrophysics mount comes into the frey - though it might have to be delivered to someone in the US then shipped over later

[Dennis]

Hi Dave

If you want advanced electronics, PEC, ability to Park the mount (without leaving it powered on), an electronic hand controller, firmware updates, etc. then I would look further afield than the Tak mounts, unless of course, the EM400 and/or EM500 offer those capabilities.

Whilst the Tak mounts are superb mechanical instruments, they seem to lag behind the other mounts in terms of electronic sophistication, requiring either a PC, Netbook, or PDA to use the GoTo capability.

Of course, if advanced electronics and firmware updates are of no concern, then the Tak mounts are superb. I have an EM200 and the Polar Alignment Scope it an absolute joy to use – I think the EM400 has the same PAS?

Have you looked at the AP Mach 1, or is that too light weight for your needs?

Good luck!

Cheers

Dennis

PS – there is a nice EM400 in the Ice In Space for sale section last time I looked – a bargain!

[gbeal]

Huff,
Oh boy, playing with fire indeed.
I'm the last to advise, as being as tight as I am, the list you have above is wasted on me.
Couple of thoughts though. There is an EM400 advertised already.
The AP1200 is nice and my pick, I have assisted a local guy with sourcing one.
I could be wrong but don't think you need to circumvent the shipping from AP to you, if you buy an AP, buy it direct from Roland and Marj.
Gary

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by Dennis

Hi Dave

If you want advanced electronics, PEC, ability to Park the mount (without leaving it powered on), an electronic hand controller, firmware updates, etc. then I would look further afield than the Tak mounts, unless of course, the EM400 and/or EM500 offer those capabilities.

Whilst the Tak mounts are superb mechanical instruments, they seem to lag behind the other mounts in terms of electronic sophistication, requiring either a PC, Netbook, or PDA to use the GoTo capability.

Of course, if advanced electronics and firmware updates are of no concern, then the Tak mounts are superb. I have an EM200 and the Polar Alignment Scope it an absolute joy to use – I think the EM400 has the same PAS?

Have you looked at the AP Mach 1, or is that too light weight for your needs?

Good luck!

Cheers

Dennis

PS – there is a nice EM400 in the Ice In Space for sale section last time I looked – a bargain!

it will be in the observatory so i suppose the PC will be a given the Ap might be too lightweight?

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by gbeal

Huff,
Oh boy, playing with fire indeed.
I'm the last to advise, as being as tight as I am, the list you have above is wasted on me.
Couple of thoughts though. There is an EM400 advertised already.
The AP1200 is nice and my pick, I have assisted a local guy with sourcing one.
I could be wrong but don't think you need to circumvent the shipping from AP to you, if you buy an AP, buy it direct from Roland and Marj.
Gary

i thank you for your advice. Yes fire proof suit required

[issdaol (Phil)]

I have a EM400 which I think is excellent build. It is very stable, quiet and the polar scope is excellent. It supports my Mewlon 300 which is a heavy OTA just fine

As others have said, you need an I-Phone/I-Pad/PDA/Laptop to control the goto.

IMHO the Tak metal tripod is the best I have seen on the market if you want portable stability.

That being said I would not exactly class a brand new Tak as a "Bang-for-Buck" bargain.

However, there is a good second hand unit on the IIS classiffieds you may want to look at.

You might also want to add the Paramount ME to your list to investigate.

Also I believe that "Bird" uses a Losmandy Titan on a permanent pier for his Jupiter observations/ccd work.

[pmrid (Peter)]

David, don't forget the recent news of an EQ7. May be worth holding off until it surfaces.
Peter

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Astro Solutions has a Takahashi Advanced Temma Hand Controller which can be used on all Temma mounts (EM200, NJP/JP-Z, EM400 and EM500) and therefore addresses some of the software shortfalls, so with that addition Tak mounts can virtually match the likes of Losmandy or Astro-Physics. The only things that Tak mounts lack is PEC.

[Gama]

Heres another, and my thought, is the best..

http://planewave.com/index.php?page=1&id0=1&id=2

Theo

[rmcconachy]

Why is the PlaneWave the best Theo? I'm not disagreeing with you (I've never seen one let alone used it) but I'm wondering what makes it better than some of the other alternatives, e.g., AP 3600GTO. Build quality? Software? Something else? I'm sure you've got reasons for your opinion and I'm curious what they might be if you are willing to share please. Just how much did you want to spend again David?

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by Gama

Heres another, and my thought, is the best..

http://planewave.com/index.php?page=1&id0=1&id=2

Theo

ooohhh veery nice but its a tad too far for me ATM

[Gama]

They handle a heavy load, and is fully controlable.
I have seen them in action, and they are a hafty mount.
AP mounts are fine too, but i didnt like the specs on his latest mount for the money you pay.
But as i said, my thought, others needs may differ.
Same goes for telescope. I bought the CDK-20 about 2 and a half years ago, and for the money, nothing could match it in price and performance.

Theo.

Theo.

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by pmrid

David, don't forget the recent news of an EQ7. May be worth holding off until it surfaces.
Peter

is it like the cge pro?

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

For the price of the Planewave I would be looking at Gemini Mountegra...it has an interesting single arm design and the best specifications I have come across.

[g__day (Matthew)]

What about the new baby Paramount MX coming out in (I think first half of 2011) expected to be around US $8,500

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL144.../393239251.jpg

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthrea.../1#Post4176047

The estimated introductory price for the Paramount MX will be approximately $8,500. Software Bisque is not officially announcing a shipping date for the Paramount MX at this time.
Paramount MX Specifications and Features

• Equipment capacity (not including the counterweights): 90 lbs. (41 kg)
• Weight of the mount: is about 50 lbs. (23 kg). This may vary slightly with the addiion of the final bearings/electronic components/polar alignment telescope, etc.).
• The next generation control system (called the MKS 5000) that employs virtually all of the features of the Paramount ME's MKS 4000 control system, with improvements, such as USB 2.0 communication interface, upgraded processors, smaller physical footprint, redesigned hand paddle. The exact power requirements are not currently available.
• Ingenious three way "switch" on both the RA and Dec axis that engages the worm during normal operation, disengage the worm from the gear when balancing the payload, or lock gear in place for during transit.
• Optional and removable polar alignment telescope for rapid alignment with the pole. A study cover protects the polar alignment scope during transport.
• GEM design allows the right ascension axis to tracks past the meridian for up to 2 hours (time).
• All internal harnesses (cables) and motors are encapsulated inside the body of the mount, just like the Paramount ME.
• Optional through the mount cabling.
• Polar alignment adjustments that are virtually identical to the Paramount ME.
• Paramount ME-like homing, tracking and pointing performance.
• Includes Versa-Plate and power supply.
• 8-inch right ascension and declination gears.
• 6-inch contact ball bearings in both right ascension and declination.
• Precision brass worms and aluminum gears that have extremely low periodic error.
• Periodic error correction curve fitting included with TheSkyX Professional Edition

[sheeny (Al)]

Originally Posted by pmrid

David, don't forget the recent news of an EQ7. May be worth holding off until it surfaces.
Peter

If it turns out to be EQMOD compatible, this could be an option for automating the obs .

Al.

[Paul Haese]

I have got an EM400 as you might know David.

Great mount, a real pleasure to setup and use. No PEC is hardly worth knowing about as guiding takes care of that little issue. PE is quoted at 3.5" but I have checked mine and it is 1.5". Many people report similar results too. So this is probably what you get normally.

My only gripes are that these mounts don't have a home position and do not have its own purpose built hand controller by Tak. If Takahashi were to get their act together and include these items these mounts would compete with other more expensive ones from other manufacturers.

By way of example Mike Sidonio uses an NJP mount and you have seen the results he gets. Everything really revolves around you determination to make things work. Even a slouch like me can get reasonable results with a Tak mount.

Anyway if I was to do it all again I would most likely buy an ME but at todays prices. At the time this was the cheapest option for me to go with the Tak.

Good luck with your decision.

[gregbradley]

Wow interesting list.

The obvious standout is the AP1200 which is in a class above the others in the list.

I see a couple of local PMEs for sale in the ads. Save on GST and shipping.

I have owned Sphinx, Mountain Instruments MI250, Tak NJP and Paramount ME.

By far and above the rest is the PME, as expected. But it is more of a jump than I expected. I now achieve round stars everytime without fail and without any mucking around trying to tweak everything. The NJP can give round stars a lot of the time but not always. This is the first time tracking is taken out of the imaging equation. My NJP requires more careful balancing, guide parameters just right, everything just right. The Paramount operates in every respect at a higher level of accuracy. It is heavier but manhandleable and I would say its at the limit for portability but could be done.

I also found it very easy to use and it is quite user friendly one thing I liked about my Tak NJP. But it has all the bells and whistles. The home position in particular is fabulous and that would be a fabulous feature on the Tak. I am not sure about the PEC. I often don't turn it on (unless it uses it automatically which is possible) and I don't see a difference when I do so perhaps Paul is right there. It is pretty accurate to start with.

Not sure about the EM400 (I suspect it is the same). The Temma control box has a switch for slewing speed or normal speed. It is quite a pain as everytime you frame the object you need the slewing speed but before you autoguide you need to flip it back to normal speed. If you forget which is easy to do, it will throw the carefully framed object off and you need to reframe it again. Also it has the quirky hold down the S1 key when turning on the mount to let it know you are in the southern hemisphere. Even with that I have had the occassional trouble convincing the software I am in the southern hemisphere as it starts to slew into the ground!

So my advice is put the mount above the dome automation and get one of these local PMEs which are superb value. Your imaging will go to another level.

With the other mounts you mention you will also do well. It no doubt will require more fussing and tweaking to get optimum results.

The other neat thing about the PME is how seamless it operates with the Sky. The fact it has a home position at startup so it you don't lose all your careful synching if you physically move the mount. Plus it will handle any size scope us amateurs are likely to get.

The next best there would be the AP1200. One feature mentioned by Tony Hallas is the fact the AP1200 can image all the way round past the meridian without doing a flip. That to me would be a real plus as my PME stops when it gets to the meridian and I have to flip it. I know this can be automated but then you're back to the mucking around with gear scene. I prefer to set it up then flick a switch, frame up the object and hit start for the imaging!

Dome automation won't make better images only extra convenience. A PME or AP1200 will and you'll never need to upgrade. I like the Tak mounts but importing an EM400 with GST and shipping and exchange rate fees will put you in similar dollars to the local 2nd hand PME for a far better mount. Perhaps the difference is narrowed to $2000 or less yet the jump up is quite large.

There are other high tech mounts out these days. But they are yet to prove themselves with large numbers of satisfied customers, bugs sorted, software compatible etc etc. I really don't like being some companies beta tester when I paid for a fully sorted product.

Greg.

[DavidTrap (David)]

Whilst my mount isn't in the same weight class that you're looking at, I'm rather impressed with the quality and ease of use of the AP Mach1GTO. I'm not pushing the envelope on focal length (600-800mm), but I can't recall the last image I discarded because of poor tracking. Imaging through the meridian is very nice.

Simply put, "does what is says on the box"!

Automation is a whole different scene - from what I can see on the web, there's really only one answer to that, PME.

DT

[MuntiNZ (Daz)]

Hi mate another mount for you list is the ASA DDM!
Mine is landed in country but I am stuck in the desert right now.
When I pick it up I will do the reviews and pics thingee here for ya all.