Is talking about speed limits banned yet?

[avandonk]

I can still remember the speed signs with a black circle with the diagonal line indicating you can go as fast as you like as long as you do it safely.
It was always 'safe' until you crashed. These highways/roads of course were bumpy pot holed and with lots of curves, hills and two way. Then there were the very slow trucks that held you up at every hill. I figured out the only time you could speed was just like now between hold-ups. The only clear bit of road you see these days is in the car ads or for a couple of hours when the grand final is on.

The good news is the roads will clear when the oil runs out.

Bert

[Alchemy (Clive)]

Originally Posted by mithrandir

Holbrook?


ll.

Yes thats the one, heading north.... Miles and miles out of town still 60 no houses or anything, and yes .... Radar guns. I thought I had missed the 100k sign, fortunately I didn't speed up, but they got a friend who was a bit further up the road than me..... We waved as we went past
I thought it was completely ridiculous, anyone else who knows the area would agree.

Please note I am not a lead foot I have had one speeding fine in 28 years of driving and that for 4 ks over the limit.

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I could be wrong but it seems to me that many laws are enacted for the public purse rather than the public good.
Could it be that speeding is seen as a ready source of revenue presented to the public on the basis that it is the public that will benefit not the treasury.

alex

Hi Alex,

A widely held assessment. I had a definite point of view once, far to the conservative end it was, but lately it seems the authorities are perhaps getting more authoritarian. Not sure. I'm still looking at all this, trying to figure out what is the ideal mix from these points of view

- we don't want people being maimed and killed (do we ? )

- we do however want some degree of personal freedom and choice ()

- I think we do want to protect the littlies (school zones etc)

- a lot of car advertising emphasises speed and power, and this is currently still permitted in all media I think (double standard )

- it is very very expensive to build safe divided highways, $30-40M per km. We pay somehow . Rail is about $7M per km if you have the corridor already.

- since some people will always speed whatever the limit and road conditions and wherever the location (agree? ) this can be seen as a source of revenue to be tapped. I do think so. Parking is also I think.

- Here is an admission, I've been snapped for speeding several times. I just paid up, because I dunnit

- the police and ambos are at the sharp end, and are unanimous, speed kills (someone) and if you don't speed ever, you won't ever be fined. This has to be true, right? Right? So the burning issue is the actual speed LIMIT, or the posting of it. Agree?

- the opposite point of view (not necessarily mine) is that all this carry on about revenue raising and bad speed limits is just spin and smoke on the part of those who want to speed wherever and whenever they wish There are some, I know, I've watched them in the school zones.

For discussion, but keep it calm

[Roobi]

once again, great points alex, I especially like the one: "Here is an admission, I've been snapped for speeding several times. I just paid up, because I dunnit"
I think it takes a fair amount of planning to work out what is a good speed limit for a particular area, its not for us to decide weather its right or wrong, its the law, we have laws for a reason. I have lost someone to speeding so i have pretty strong views on the subject, but still keep an open mind. I will listen to any points people bring up, but i just cant understand people thinking their above the law. If you speed, cop the fine, even if its one km over, your still speeding, and i just hope that none of you ever lose someone to speeding, as it will certainly change your mind on the subject forever. Once again, interesting points from all of you though and ill definatly try my hardest to keep my open mind.

Cheers

[space oddity]

Many of the laws we have are writen by brain dead bureaucrats who would not know reality if it hit them on the head. I reckon I spend as much time watching the speedo as watching the road. This really makes things safer? Does anyone really believe that a couple of k's over the limit suddenly makes things dangerous? It is a revenue grab. Remember- bureaucrats, cops(they have lost my respect) and other public servants are supposed to work for US- we pay them to work for the public benefit, not just revenue raisers for wasteful and corrupt governments.
Anyone who stands behind the old line "it is the law" is a coward and most likely a fool. Just because some bureaucrat has written some rule without applying some common sense does not somehow magically make it right.
Our society would probably be better off if we just paid the morons who make the road rules to stay at home and not" work."

[Roobi]

well so much for me being open minded. Nice way to generalise mate that anyone who is a law abiding citizen is a fool and a coward. It's clear that you think yourself above everyone else. And yes a few kms over the speed limit can make a huge difference

"Once the brain realizes danger, the human reaction time is how long the body takes to move the foot from accelerator to brake pedal. Again this reaction time can vary from ¼ - ¾ of a second.
These first 2 components of stopping distance are human factors and as such can be effected by tiredness, alcohol, fatigue and concentration levels. A perception and reaction time of 3 or 4 seconds is possible. 4 seconds at 100 km/hr means the car travels 110 metres before the brakes are applied.

http://www.sdt.com.au/images/STOPPINGDISTANCEPHOTO.jpg

Look at the difference between the 50 kms and 60 kms Thats around 12 mtrs difference, thats 2.4 mts for 2 kms over 50. If a kid runs out in front of you that 2 kms could make a huge difference, and what will you say to the judge when the kid gets killed. Oh well i was only 2 kms over, i wasn't really speeding.

Speeding is speeding.

[Colin_Fraser]

Originally Posted by space oddity

Does anyone really believe that a couple of k's over the limit suddenly makes things dangerous?

Perhaps you should ask some parent who's child was killed by some speeding motorist who has absolutely no respect for the law.

[Roobi]

agreed colin, before this thread does gets locked i wanted to say please, please think about it carefully when you speed. There is a huge amount of evidence backing up how 'just a few kms over' can change things especially in a collision, and notice how many 'touched by the road toll stickers are on cars these days. Think of the lives torn apart from losing someone they love. Do you really want to risk causing harm or possibly killing someone beacause you may think the speed limits arent fair. Please please think about it, from someone who has lost someone, speed really does make a difference.

[Moon (James)]

My astronomy adventure on the autobahn...

http://deepspaceplace.com/mn152.php

James

[pgc hunter]

It's not so much the speed limit that irks me, it's the bloody tolerance. 3kph is plain ridiculous, and to put that in perspective, that's half the pace of a brisk walk

Those 40 school zones on major 70 or 80kph roads are plain ridiculous, you're just cruising along at 80 then suddenly you are slamming on the brakes to avoid the traffic jam infront of you.

For the most part, speed limits on major arterial roads and suburban streets are appropriate, and have no problems with the typical 70 or 80 on such roads. 100 on city freeways is also about where it should be, although on over engineered urban freeways such as Eastlink, 120 would be more appropriate. On the Hume or other rural dual carriageways, it should be atleast 130-140.

just my 2c

[snowyskiesau]

I think that open road speed limits could be increased on suitable roads e.g. Hume Highway, that are divided road with few if any cross roads.

As far as suburban speeds are concerned, 50kph is more that enough. Most of the time you'd be in traffic and probably going slower than that anyway. (If my street is any indication)

The only speed limit I do have an issue with is the 40kph in school zones on school days during certain hours.. . I don't have children so have no idea when school days are, I'm often unaware of the time when I am driving and looking to check can't be good. While some signs do have flashing lights to remind you, not all do.
Why not just make the speed limit 40kph ALL the time?

And if reducing the road toll is the real reason for speeding fines, then make a driving license harder to get and harder to keep. Make speeding fines appropriate based on the speed limit at the place the offence takes place. e.g. a much higher fine for 10kph over the limit if the limit is 60kph than if the limit is 100kph.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Roobi

If a kid runs out in front of you that 2 kms could make a huge difference, and what will you say to the judge when the kid gets killed. Oh well i was only 2 kms over, i wasn't really speeding.

Speeding is speeding.

Well said.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by space oddity

.... Remember- bureaucrats, cops(they have lost my respect) and other public servants are supposed to work for US- we pay them to work for the public benefit, not just revenue raisers for wasteful and corrupt governments.
Anyone who stands behind the old line "it is the law" is a coward and most likely a fool....

Well, the public servants you have mentioned work for ME too, and I happen to agree with current speed law enforcement.

So you need to vote for your local hoons party candidate, then get whatever speed laws you like enacted.

[pgc hunter]

Originally Posted by snowyskiesau

I think that open road speed limits could be increased on suitable roads e.g. Hume Highway, that are divided road with few if any cross roads.

As far as suburban speeds are concerned, 50kph is more that enough. Most of the time you'd be in traffic and probably going slower than that anyway. (If my street is any indication)

The only speed limit I do have an issue with is the 40kph in school zones on school days during certain hours.. . I don't have children so have no idea when school days are, I'm often unaware of the time when I am driving and looking to check can't be good. While some signs do have flashing lights to remind you, not all do.
Why not just make the speed limit 40kph ALL the time?

And if reducing the road toll is the real reason for speeding fines, then make a driving license harder to get and harder to keep. Make speeding fines appropriate based on the speed limit at the place the offence takes place. e.g. a much higher fine for 10kph over the limit if the limit is 60kph than if the limit is 100kph.

The fact that they *forecast* the expected revenue from speed cameras at the start of every fiscal year, that alone suggests that they are merely for blatant revenue raising

[Kevnool (Kev)]

Putting it simple if you want to speed take it to a race track.
How simple is that.

Why not try this then, If you want to get there quicker then leave earlier.

[stephenb (Stephen)]

Originally Posted by Colin_Fraser

Perhaps you should ask some parent who's child was killed by some speeding motorist who has absolutely no respect for the law.

Succinctly said, thank you, Colin. No need to say anymore.

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

The government would get no money from anyone if everyone stopped speeding which is the aim of the fines so if the fines stopped people they would not be revenue raising. Penalties are not imposed to encourage and action but to discourage it.

[Colin_Fraser]

Originally Posted by pgc hunter

It's not so much the speed limit that irks me, it's the bloody tolerance. 3kph is plain ridiculous, and to put that in perspective, that's half the pace of a brisk walk

If the limit is 60, stay under it. Why try and sneak a few kmh over?

Those 40 school zones on major 70 or 80kph roads are plain ridiculous, you're just cruising along at 80 then suddenly you are slamming on the brakes to avoid the traffic jam infront of you.

If you need to slam on the brakes to avoid a jam, you are obviously driving too fast or not paying attention. Using a mobile?

For the most part, speed limits on major arterial roads and suburban streets are appropriate, and have no problems with the typical 70 or 80 on such roads. 100 on city freeways is also about where it should be,

then why is it appropriate to go over those limits.

although on over engineered urban freeways such as Eastlink, 120 would be more appropriate. On the Hume or other rural dual carriageways, it should be atleast 130-140.

Well that would be scary. Imagine pulling a caravan, driving an older car or cruising on the Harley and a B-double or these new triples tears past at 140Kph, actually 150kph because they think is okay to speed.

[rat156]

As I started this I believe that I should have the right of reply for some of the comments on the forum.

Firstly, and let me make this abundantly clear.

THE ARTICLE AND THE DISCUSSION IS NOT ABOUT THE MERITS, OR OTHERWISE OF SPEEDING!!!!!!

The article is about raising the speed limits (or if you live in Victoria) not lowering the speed limits on SUITABLE roads.

There are many case where excessive speed does in fact kill, driver passenger or pedestrian.

Whilst I only have the most heartfelt sorrow for those that have lost a loved one to the road toll, some of the cases brought forward here, when taken in context with the original post are ridiculous. We are talking about open roads, freeways and the like. Here more accidents are single vehicle "fatigue" accidents than any other. What is the cause of this, it is not speed, more likely, according to several experts, it's the lack of speed and hence concentration.

Before you quote stopping distances, you need to say what type of car, what the condition of the brakes and tyres are etc. To say that traveling at 60 vs 50 increases your stopping distance by 12 m is false. My car has enormous brakes, ABS and very good tyres. I look after my car because I rely on it to transport me safely between destinations. The stopping distance is increased from 50kmh to 60, but its more like 3-4 m, just ask the kid that rode out in front of me on his bike, he was less than two parked cars away from me when I saw him, I was doing 50kmh, I stopped a good metre or two before him. Now if I had been in a sh!tbox with crappy Korean or Chinese tyres and brakes the size of milk bottle tops I would have hit him even if I was doing 30. There are a number of variables in stopping distances, speed is just one.

People who kill others, having "no respect for the law" will not abide by any speed limit, whatever is posted. If they are doing 100 in a 60 zone do you think that they actually care about the posted limit?

Since when does driving fast (at the speed limit) equate to being a hoon. I'll tell you a story...

A year or so ago I was pulled over by the Constabulary for "speeding". What actually happened was that I was at the front of the queue at a set of lights on a four lane highway, the cops were in the leftmost lane about four cars behind me. The lights changed to green an as no one was in front of me I could accelerate, quickly. This I did until I hit the speed limit, at which time I ceased accelerating and sat on the speed limit. The car has traction control and did not break traction. I was asked by the cops to pull over, at which time I was informed that I was speeding. As I wasn't, and at no time had been, I argued my point, knowing that there was no evidence that could say I was. The Copper "let me off with a warning" and then informed me that could have been done under the hoon laws (which is actually false as I would have had to have either broken traction (loss of control) or committed some other offence). So I am a hoon for accelerating too quickly?

Unfortunately, the law enforcement and bureaucrats have brainwashed the public into thinking "Speed Kills". There are usually many causes for accidents, speed is one. I have no problem with excessive speed kills, but the arguments for "a couple of k's over" just don't hold water, this could make a huge difference to the stopping and maneuverability of a car, or almost none.

What we should be doing is ramming "Driver education and better roads saves lives" back down their throats, not this simplistic, jargonistic rubbish.

Cheers
Stuart

[Peter Ward]

Oh ! Oh! Oh!....My pet topic. Where do I start???

The first...and I'd have to say self evident truth...is no bureaucrat has any idea of what is a " safe speed"



They show us this by constantly changing the posted speed limits on the same stretch of road, while the road itself hasn't changed one iota.



They even do this at different times of day. The physical presence of school children is not required...you will however need a clock and school calendar to determine whether your speed is unsafe.

I'd suggest well trained and experienced driver can determine "safe" speed...and that speed could well be lower than the posted limit...just as it could be higher....but while drivers are allowed to say "nah...this is a bit quick" you are not allowed to say "nah...too slow" is it will cop you a fine or much worse.

Saying "go faster that x-km/hr and fire/brimstone will appear" is simplistic as it is stupid..which I am sure, the good German Doctor was well aware of. The Germans are very much focused on flow control and good driver training... concepts lost in Oz.



The RTA.. bless 'em. They are *anti* advanced young driver training as they would then be "too confident". Thank Christ young aviators are not trained with the same ethos.

Apparently Oz drivers are in a state of perpetual stupor....and clearly some are. The RTA would have you believe it takes close to 2 seconds to react on an external event. So we all have to drive more slowly to compensate for our unusually slow synaptic transmissions. Makes one wonder how you could play cricket or tennis.....I digress

If it took me (anyone really) that long to react I'd be out of my day job....and frankly would sell my cars as it was clearly blind luck that after 35+ years of often traveling at a good clip I haven't been killed already.

Perhaps it's not speed, but rotten or ill-considered driving that gets one into real trouble... but bugger, how do you make any money out of that??