Animal farm...

[bojan]

Originally Posted by Nesti

Ummm...the Rio/ Chinalco failure followed up by the attempted Rio/BHP deal was literally a slap in the face for the Chinese. You've got to recognise that in China it's all about 'face' and business is done differently than in the west.....


I personally like the Chinese...they work hard, detest laziness and to be perfectly honest, are the best neighbors in my street.

I've got nothing to fear from them...as I'm not a crook.

Just my 17.8 cents worth; tax adjusted.

Ditto.

[Kal (Andrew)]

Corruption at the highest levels of a large capitalist company? Never!

Perhaps we should have dealt some punishment like this to those on the AWB board with their dodgy "food for oil" corrupt practices which violated UN sanctions.

[bobson (Bob)]

Trevor
Bob and others please do your research bribery etc is rampant in China and considered the norm when doing business

According to who? Americans and British? I am fed up with those two are thinking they know everything and everyone should play as they say including Australia. If they dont like it siply dont deal with them, but hang on, China is the biggest market in the world.

You better read what Mark/Nesti wrote

The Chinese are BIG on relationships and hate being misled and/or double-crossed. They negotiate hard but a-deals'-a-deal...we MUST let-go of the American-style business mindset...remember how the US has dealt with Aust wheat and wool trade over the past 30 years?...or has that conveniently slipped our minds?

Yes, about wool and sheep that we wanted to sell to Russia in 70-s but our friends Americans said if you do that you are dealing with communists!
What are we going to do then, well Americans said, sell it to us, and we did. And then immediately they sold it to Russia. So they can deal with communists but we could not. Give me a break!

[GrahamL]

Are large car makers who lobby and recieve generous tax breaks in Australia to the tune of hundred of millions to make there wares here not guilty of recieving bribes ? .. and how isnt the state not guilty of
paying them ?.. maybe we call it "investment in jobs " rather than what it really is.

If this guy was trying to burn the candle at both ends regarding dealing with state run enterprises .. well there is some chance any govt whos been made to look an ass isn't going to be to happy about it.

The lack of scrutiny from the employer about the buisness dealings
regarding its biggest customer is what should really be in the news

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...r-1930813.html

[TrevorW]

Sorry Bob but no this is according to the Chinese please read some of their history even before communist rule etc as far back as when Sun Tzu wrote "the art of war" around 400BC the Chinese have used bribery and espionage to acheive their aims in war and business

I read what Mark wrote and fundamentally it is no different to what I said

this is more about the fact that someone beat them at their own game and they lost face and don't like it

Everybody needs to watch out they don't sell out their own countries to China for the sake of sheer profit

[Visionoz (Bill)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Sorry Bob but no this is according to the Chinese please read some of their history even before communist rule etc as far back as when Sun Tzu wrote "the art of war" around 400BC the Chinese have used bribery and espionage to acheive their aims in war and business

Yeah, and the Yanks must have learnt the art too - see what they are doing in Iraq & Afghanistan wars by "ahem" - providing "monetary incentives" to dissuade the so-called dissidents!!.

I am sure in the history of mankind (or animal farm as Peter calls it), we all have been using bribery one way or another and its not only the Chinese that does it unless the world population must be all Chinese!

Cheers
Bill

[Peter Ward]

My beef is not with the Chinese. They do what they can get away with.

In a loose analogy, the response of the Oz government reminds me of an old gag by Robin Williams. The the USA the Police shout "Stop or I'll shoot". Our lot?
" Stop!...or....I'll say stop again!"

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Sorry Bob but no this is according to the Chinese please read some of their history even before communist rule etc as far back as when Sun Tzu wrote "the art of war" around 400BC the Chinese have used bribery and espionage to acheive their aims in war and business

Ofcourse we can throw stones about Chinese behaviour and history because 'ours' is so squeeky clean.

The problem with getting into debt with China these days is that we would find it very difficult to blockade their ports to make them accept our opium.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

..... very difficult to blockade their ports to make them accept our opium.

The French had no such problem with the Kiwis, in applying pressure to get their "rainbow warrior" operatives out of NZ. Amazing how tying up a few bulk carriers for months on end due "customs anomalies" can provide leverage in an apparently unconnected legal system.

[Nesti (Mark)]

I've read a lot of good arguments in this thread...perhaps at the end of the day what we're actually seeing is in fact tell-tale signs of a paridigm shift in the way global politics and commercialism is done.

There is a transition happening...and we're caught in the midst of a global balancing of currencies, trade, sovereignty and power.

China, the US and Europe are all deflating their currencies in a desperate bid to increase exports (link this comment to my later comment of precedence)...while we're being 'beach-balled' above the surface as a result of their actions - No, we're not ahead of the financial curve; we're actually experiencing an artificial currency climb and prosperity hike!

Israel is thumbing its nose at the US too...maybe smelling blood in the water.

The BRIC Block was established and is active...SDRs are also active - that's a sign of things to come in itself.

Back to the Stern Hu issue...he's entirely expendable. In fact, this is Chinas' opportunity to create a new international precedence for commercial activity within China. China can and will take every opportunity to let the world know that business will be done their way...or as close to it as possible.

In relation to pointing the finger at who's better or worse than the other...just name a country and there's dirt, it's that simple. The only thing that counts now is being able to READ the play.

Stocks and shares are old news these days...look for spin-offs; projects which takes advantage of the global climate.

[richardda1st (Richard)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

My beef is not with the Chinese. They do what they can get away with.

In a loose analogy, the response of the Oz government reminds me of an old gag by Robin Williams. The the USA the Police shout "Stop or I'll shoot". Our lot?
" Stop!...or....I'll say stop again!"

Hello Peter

At last we agree on something.

Yes, that is a very loose analogy; it’s so loose it looks like you have over done the laxative.

It’s very obvious to me (unfortunately not to others) that you’re playing a very simple but stupid political game . By knocking our Federal government’s handling of this problem, you have started a racist argument.

Peter , it seems to me that you are a “ Right-wing fanatic” and that regardless of what a Labor government does with any issue, you will try to apply your simplistic arguments to smear as much LOOSE CRAP on it as possible.

I put this to you. If our government had adopted a much harder line, which may have made the situation worse, people like you will most likely blame and criticize them for going in to hard.

XOXOXOXO
Richard

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

I would not be at all surprised if there was a lot going on behind the scenes that was not made public knowledge just something to think about.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by richardda1st

... it seems to me that you are a “ Right-wing fanatic” ....

As an undergrad, Gough was my hero..

Hence I don't think your comments are even close to the mark.

Thinking of crap, Gough ensured Federal funds were available so that the dreaded "night cart" would be thing of the past & western Sydney was at last, going to be properly flushed....he also released a good number of political prisoners (objectors to the Vietman war...shamefully incarcerated by Gorton et. al.) and opened up equal pay for women...hardly right wing policy.

But I digress. I think I am something of a (Oz) patriot.

A much harder line could have been played out behind the scenes. Rudd could have got on the blower ( in fluent Mardarin) ...." Mate, it's going to cost us, but if you really want to burn one of our Citizens over this, it's going to cost you a lot more..."

What did we get? "I would say to our friends in Beijing … the responsible course of action is to ensure that your judiciary process is transparent"

Think I'll need the full flush for that.

[TrevorW]

My beef is not with the Chinese either I know many and find them generally nice people so I don't know why racism has been mentioned

my beef is that they ie: The Chinese Communist Govt are punishing someone excessively IMO for doing business the way they themselves have done (and others) for millenia but in the process they got duped which they don't like and are making an example of this gentleman

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

... The Chinese Communist Govt are punishing someone excessively IMO for doing business the way they themselves have done (and others) for millenia but in the process they got duped which they don't like and are making an example of this gentleman

Excellent observation! Succinct and to the point IMHO

[bojan]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

.... an example of this gentleman

Gentleman???
He is a crook. Plain and simple.
Guys like that contributed to recent downturn of economy .. I lost 20% of my super because of people like this.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by bojan

Gentleman???
He is a crook. Plain and simple.
......

How can you make this conclusion when no-one here knows what happened in that closed Chinese court?

If Verrender's SMH commentary is accurate, the charges were trumped up at best. One also has to question a legal system that finds 98% of those accused as guilty....

[bojan]

I can... why not? You guys also do not know details, yet you are defending him, for who knows what reasons.
Besides, most of those "high profile" businessmen are crooks.
And, he is not very clever.. being Chinese and letting himself caught in his own environment.. he should have known better.
He deserves everything that will happen to him.

BTW, we do not have any right to criticise other countries and their legal systems. None.
When you are in foreign country, you have to behave according to local rules.
This is exactly what we expect of "them" when "they" are here: to obey OUR rules and customs. And to avoid being in trouble.
I am more than sure he knew exactly what he was doing, he miscalculated and he will pay the price.

[TrevorW]

I honestly can't believe how naive some people are what you are saying is you might as well jail all politicians, all local govt councillors and all business people as they are all crooks.

thats the point but obviously you for one just don't you get it ???

he was doing exactly what they have done to others for a long time and if it hadn't have been the fact he beat them at their own game he may have got away with it but was being made an example of

ps: the term gentleman was being used in it's vernacular context

Please someone close this thread

[Hagar (Doug)]

When are you people ever going to grow a brain and discuss a subject which isn't designed to instigate a long drawn out round about which is in direct conflict with the political guidelines layed down in the TOS.

You are again discussing a news paper article which no doubt is just one mans thoughts on the whole affair. The political wrangling going on in the background will probably never be known by any of us.

With the history of human rights in China how can we as educated people expect any diferent outcome from what has happened and to try and force China to back down is purely laughable.

Wake up and thank God it's not you there.