Speed doesn't kill

[Peter Ward]

My favourite hobby horse...and yes it seems we've been lied to by our bureaucrats and pollies. This was in the SMH

Safety expert for Mercedes says strict speeding laws are not the answer to lowering road tolls.


A leading safety expert says a crackdown on speeding is not the answer to reducing the road toll.

The vice president of safety development for Mercedes-Benz, Ulrich Mellinghoff, says crash avoidance systems, better roads and more roundabouts would do more to cut the road toll than tougher speeding laws... .....His claims are borne out by German road statistics. In 1972, there were 20,000 deaths on West German roads. In 2009, there were 4100, despite 20 million more people on the road (including the old East Germany).

The full article can be seen here:

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/s...0304-pjin.html

Speeding motorists in Oz are such a soft target. Sadly, the revenues raised would not be given up easily....as the German option would require better roads, flow control and driver eductaion...and that costs.

[casstony]

The gov't raises taxes by various means, including speeding fines. If we didn't pay the occasional speeding fine they would have to increase taxes in some other way.

Of course, the gov't wastes enormous amounts of money, but that's another topic.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by casstony

The gov't raises taxes by various means, including speeding fines. If we didn't pay the occasional speeding fine they would have to increase taxes in some other way.

Of course, the gov't wastes enormous amounts of money, but that's another topic.

Ah yes...Vicroads ...you get pinged for 3km/hr over down there. One would think that alone would be cause for a little Civil-uncompliance.

[Barrykgerdes]

Of course it is not speed on its own that causes trouble. It is poor driving technique often associated with driving faster than ones capabilities.

The government doesn't really care. They are only interested in the money in which case it is extortion. They closed the option of prison as an option years ago using the case of a traffic offender being bashed in gaol. That really was only an excuse to save them money.

The one thing you can be sure of is that the present method will not change for the better. (unless you elect me as PM then we will see some real changes).

Baz

[casstony]

While speeding fines are annoying, it's too stressful and time consuming to butt heads with bureaucracy over such issues - better to work with the system and focus your efforts on the good things in life.

I'd have a different view if the issue were more serious, such as dragging my offspring off to war - I'd probably die fighting the bureaucracy in that case.

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

Peter,

I live some 2km from a major freeway leading out of Sydney. On a weekend, the roar of hoons drag racing down this freeway from my home at 3 am is frightful.

Speeding does not kill, just like a gun does not kill. It is the idiot behind the wheel or trigger that does.

Don't blame the bureaurocracy if these dills are out there. Something else is failing to tame these goons. And the goons that follow don't learn after their mate's brains are scooped up with a bucket and spatula.

I've seen enough carniage due to these folk. I don't want my family to fall victim to them.

If you can get your gollies on a proper racetrack, great. The public roads are not for racing. Don't forget that. And I'm not a professional driver. I've got two screaming kids in the back and a nagging wife next to me. I'm not looking out for some dope fanging their wheels.

There's a place for everything.

Bring on the car press I say!

[pgc hunter]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Ah yes...Vicroads ...you get pinged for 3km/hr over down there. One would think that alone would be cause for a little Civil-uncompliance.

Not Vic Roads, but that buffoon Steve Bracks that introduced this law. Saving lives? I'm not buying it.

[OneOfOne (Trevor)]

I think there is vast difference between speeding and exceding the speed limit.

Driving on a freeway at 105 is exceeding the speed limit and is nothing more than "naughty", I doubt there are many severe accidents where travelling 5 or 10 kph slower would make any significant differnce. Getting up to 115-120 whilst overtaking a car doing 90 on a divided road is just performing a potentially dangerous action as quickly and safely as practicable, but continuing to drive at that speed after passing is speeding and should be fined. Driving in rain like we had at the weekend at 50 in a 60 zone is probably dangerous/careless driving and should be fined.

If you want to "speed" you should be fined, "speeding" should be reserved for a race track or other organised event. As for some of the hoons caught in Victoria lately, I have a great idea for a new reality show, "Crushers" where they telecast live as a hoon gets to press the button that sends his car into the crusher and we can see the expression on his face.

Speeding as such never killed anyone, it's the sudden stop that does it!

[koputai (Jason)]

Are you sure it's not just marketing? Aren't Mercedes-Benz trying to flog crash avoidance systems in their new vehicles?

I've spent a large amount of time driving in the last six months, and it's made me realise that there are a lot of people out there who should have their licences taken from them. Sure, it's not speed that kills, but more often than not, the speeders are morons who can't drive fast safely.

Red P platers, seem to all do at least 20kph over the limit, wherever they are, and swerve in and out changing lanes every 7 seconds.
Young women, 50% are texting, the other 50% are holding their phone to their ear.
Tradies, 90% are on the phone, and writing things down in their book, drifting on and off the road.

Remember, half the population is below average intelligence, licencing needs to be a lot more stringent.

Cheers,
Jason.

[Waxing_Gibbous (Peter)]

With the occasional naughty exception I confine my speeding to track days.
There are loads of helpful suggestions to curb hooning and road toll, but the only obvious one is don't give anyone under 25 a license for a vehicle with more than 40bhp.

Have a "3 strikes" rule for Excessive Speeding /DWI. Mandatory sentencing (Too many Judges drive while drunk to be sensible about it!)

1)-Loss of Drivers Permit and car(s) impounded for 3 months. 30 Days at Her Majesty's service. $2500 fine.
2) Loss of DP for 3 years. 6 months prison. Car(s) impounded and sold or crushed. $10,000 fine.
3) Loss of DP forever. 1 year prison. Car(s) as above $50,000 fine.

Injure / Kill someone while over the limit or excessively speeding?
Skip the three strikes and:
30 years for a serious (debilitating) injury and forfeiture of all assets.
Life in prison (35 year parole period) for death. Forfeiture of all assets.
No government assistance to dependents.

Fair few people care about those nasty images they show during driver's ed classes. In any case the memory soon fades when you plant your foot in a really fast car !
People who willingly flout DUI and Excessive speeding laws don't care about anyone else!
But if they KNEW, for a certainty, and that no judge could contermand them, that they were faced with seriously Draconian penalties that would cost them big money and hard-time, well they might at least think twice.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Waxing_Gibbous

...

Have a "3 strikes" rule for Excessive Speeding /DWI. Mandatory sentencing (Too many Judges drive while drunk to be sensible about it!)

1)-Loss of Drivers Permit and car(s) impounded for 3 months. 30 Days at Her Majesty's service. $2500 fine.
2) Loss of DP for 3 years. 6 months prison. Car(s) impounded and sold or crushed. $10,000 fine.
3) Loss of DP forever. 1 year prison. Car(s) as above $50,000 fine.
...

Good start - licence suspensions should be a suspended jail sentence - caught driving while suspended, then spend the rest of the suspension period in jail.
When I was younger and sillier I though speed limits were too low, now I think they are too high. 100km/h on dual-carriage-ways is high enough, non-dual-carriage-ways should be 80 only. Why are we in such a hurry?

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Waxing_Gibbous

....
1)-Loss of Drivers Permit and car(s) impounded for 3 months. 30 Days at Her Majesty's service. $2500 fine.
2) Loss of DP for 3 years. 6 months prison. Car(s) impounded and sold or crushed. $10,000 fine.
3) Loss of DP forever. 1 year prison. Car(s) as above $50,000 fine.
.........
Injure / Kill someone while over the limit or excessively speeding?
Skip the three strikes and:
30 years for a serious (debilitating) injury and forfeiture of all assets.
Life in prison (35 year parole period) for death. Forfeiture of all assets.
No government assistance to dependents........

In your dreams. Draconian penalties are not handed out in Oz for murder with intent.....so why demonize motorists thus?

Daily the tabloids tell us of stabbings, assaults, shootings and murders....yet rarely does the system impose much more than a decade of punishment, and often imposes no more than a "good behavior bond"

Moving at a good clip does not mean something bad will happen. Moving at speed in totally the wrong environment will almost guarantee disaster, and this is what needs to be educated, rather than a "speed (and nothing else) kills"

More bubble wrapping nonsense IMHO.

The Germans already have the answer....but it seems to me Kindergarten Oz just isn't mature enough the realise we have got it wrong, and to take it on-board a proven system.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Lee

Why are we in such a hurry?

Planet Oz is around 4,000km wide...it takes a good deal of time to traverse this land at speeds more suitable for model-T Fords.

We really need to come out of the automotive dark ages, and recognise the fact that, on the right road, many vehicles are very safe at autobahn speeds. Crawling in the right lane does bugger up traffic flow and
forcing cars into same speed clusters needlessly increases traffic density and the risk of an accident.

[TheDecepticon]

Originally Posted by koputai

I've spent a large amount of time driving in the last six months, and it's made me realise that there are a lot of people out there who should have their licences taken from them. Sure, it's not speed that kills, but more often than not, the speeders are morons who can't drive fast safely.

My small contribution to this conversation is that the driving test is structured so that everybody can get a license, none of the driving courses or tests deal with actually learning how to drive a motor vehicle properly. It is discrimination to not give someone their license, and in this pansy led country, you can't do that.

[TrevorW]

What's the point in building (or selling) a car that can do 200mph when you legally can't

Driver license suspensions are a waste of time the ones that should be off the road just drive without one

Now a immovable car immobiliser wrist band attached to a perpetrator that will immobilise any vehicle they try and drive would be far more apt than a license suspension

[Miaplacidus (Brian)]

Hi All,
Right up front I will out myself as someone who doesn't have a lot of sympathy for the view that people ought to be able to drive as fast as they please. But that doesn't mean I'm closed minded to good arguments.

I think one problem that advocates of unlimited speeds have is that no matter how sensible these individuals are, they will be supporting the desires of people who have no sense at all. Also, arguments adduced from the experiences of far countries will always have to be qualified by the obvious fact that all things are not equal. (Why do we always hear about the Germans and not the Italians? I remember hearing someone argue against immunisations because Burma, which has no immunisation program, has lower rates of ADHD than Thailand, which does! As though Burma even counts its cases of ADHD!)

And basically, if someone needs to be driving fast, then almost ipso facto they shouldn't be, since who will deny that the mere act of hurrying makes mistakes more likely? (I wouldn't want my surgeon rushing through my appendectomy just because she had to pick up the kids from school.) How are we going to legislate that calm, unhurried drivers should be free to speed, while those who are pressured to get somewhere urgently should be forced to slow down?

No point getting too stressed by all this, though, since the law is never going to change...

Cheers,

Brian.

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

I like all you guys but if you want to drive fast that's fine but do it on a racetrack I don't believe that you can drive over the limit and ensure everyone's safety it's not just your driving skill in question but the skills of everyone around you. Basically the road is not the place for fast driving and the racetrack is. I have been in the same situation and did my fast driving on the track where it is as safe as it can be made for all concerned.

Anyway that's my say

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Planet Oz is around 4,000km wide...it takes a good deal of time to traverse this land at speeds more suitable for model-T Fords.

We really need to come out of the automotive dark ages, and recognise the fact that, on the right road, many vehicles are very safe at autobahn speeds. Crawling in the right lane does bugger up traffic flow and
forcing cars into same speed clusters needlessly increases traffic density and the risk of an accident.

Yeah and I can see a 4000km long autobahn built in Australia in the next 100 years! Somehow I don't think so.

It's cheaper to fly in any case. And a lot faster than even the most uber-Deutsch-autobahn.....

[Lee]

I'm sure everyone who has ever lost control of their speeding car and hit a tree thought they were a much too-good of a driver for that to happen. Even Peter Brock.

[stephenb (Stephen)]

I drive to the speed limit and the road and weather conditions. I must be unique.