Apparently high prices charged by some of our retailers here in Australia

[Spanrz (Brett)]

Been through Nat Geo shops recently, sheesh....Just for a 4-5 inch newt (ok computer controlled) over $600.
Are you buying a kiddy scope, or just the mount and elec's with the scope thrown in???

[sasup (Stacey)]

I think is just hard times in retail and people are just looking out for themselfs. I would be happy with the higher costs if the service was any good. Here in Sydney I walked into a shop in the CPD two weeks ago and wanted to buy a new 12 inch lightbridge I stood around for a good 20 mins before leaving, ( thier was only onw other punter with two workers) very weak. I will never go back there as a point and bought out of south Australia. Now it could just be me but I have heard the same thing from others. Forget about cost and lets focus on service. My 2 cents

[Louwai (Bryan)]

Originally Posted by sasup

Forget about cost and lets focus on service. My 2 cents

Cost AND Service is what's required.

If I was going to forget about the prices charged in Oz in favour of service, then the service would need to be a damn sight BETTER than what is offered currently.

I have just purchased 3x EP's + Cats Eye collimation gear(2 sets) + Glatter Laser, all from the US.
Retail purchase + Packaging for multiple packages + delivery + Bank t/fer fees was a total of AU$2350.00

Just 1 of the EP's retails in Oz for AU$900 + delivery
All up, if I'd bought it all here, local purchase would have been close to AU$3100.



I saw in someone's post a comment about local retailers keeping stock.
Very few of them do. That's why it takes 6wks for them to deliver something to you after it's ordered. They order it direct from the O/S supplier & then it takes 6wks. They won't even pay the extra to send it via courier. (4 to 5 days from pretty much anywhere in the world)
& then charge a huge mark-up % for the "service".

I don't think so..................

We might be a small market, but not small enough to warrant the %'s charged.



I was speaking to someone only today who was interested in getting a scope, but were absolutly shocked at the prices when they started to look around.
They now have decided that Astronomy is not for them. The price is too restrictive.

[Satchmo]

Originally Posted by sasup

Here in Sydney I walked into a shop in the CPD two weeks ago and wanted to buy a new 12 inch lightbridge I stood around for a good 20 mins before leaving

Wow , you travelled all the way in from Avalon and couldn't wait 20 min while someone else got service ? You can't have wanted to walk out with a new 12" LB that badly then

[wasyoungonce (Brendan)]

Originally Posted by Louwai

....I saw in someone's post a comment about local retailers keeping stock..... Very few of them do. ....

It's gotten so bad with some big retailers in Australia that you have to telephone ahead to see if they have stock before ordering.

Yet they keep advertising as if they have the stock ready to sell. I've been burnt by that more than once.

Further to this..I have seen little in the way of "price drops" since the rise in $Aust and if they are ordering from OS on demand then the cat really does have the cream!

Never again!

[marki]

I have said it a million times folks, OPT. Order on monday and you have it by friday saving at least 20% on most items including the cost of freight, often a lot more. Join their club and get even bigger discounts. All this BS about service etc is just that. I am not going to pay huge markups so somebody can have their hobby as a full time job. If their prices are competative then fair enough otherwise they can go jump in the lake.

Mark

[stargate101 (James Karn)]

Yup totally agree,bought many a item from OPT as most have come to that conclusion, although i did once have a bad experience with a US company a CCD i bought decided to die on me and the shipping back and forth plus the delay and hassle kinda soured the experience of getting stuff cheap from there, nope if it's generic skywatcher or William Optics or now i see the guy's got Atik cameras on his website(bit late for me now though dammit) check out the astroguy, even cheaper than the andrews from what i've seen, although hav'nt bought anything off him yet.

[TrevorW]

Unfortunately there are retailers surviving on the gullibility and ignorance of newcomers too the hobby

Alas many a future Hawkins dreams could be sullied by their greed.

Buy OS when dollar is high and warranty is not an issue

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Has anyone ever thought how much it costs to run, staff and stock a retail shop? I would say getting close to a $600,000 before I sell something. What would be the turnover dollar value? and then the profit for the effort.

Everytime you shop at OPT or some other overseas market, it indirectly increases the cost of equipment for people who don't like to buy from overseas.

You have the choice. But dont think the retailers are in it just to lose money, to make you feel warm and fuzzy.

You pay for advice, and the more you shop OS the less advice they can provide and they now have to compete on price alone.

20 years ago you could go to someone like Dick Smith Electronics and get good researched advice on the products they carry, try getting that same advice now, it is just Woolworths Electrical Supermarket.

If that is what you want then great, but I dont.

4 staff $250,000
Rent $100,000 pa
Insurances $100,000
Othe goings $100,000
Stock $$ depending on turnover etc.

So when you start to look at the figures, on a $1mil of stock cost, I have to make about 50% gross margin to just stay in business, $2mil and it is now 25%, $3mil 19% etc etc.

And you all want this for less than 10% margin on Australian volumes.

[Louwai (Bryan)]

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

Has anyone ever thought how much it costs to run, staff and stock a retail shop? I would say getting close to a $600,000 before I sell something. What would be the turnover dollar value? and then the profit for the effort.

Everytime you shop at OPT or some other overseas market, it indirectly increases the cost of equipment for people who don't like to buy from overseas.

You have the choice. But dont think the retailers are in it just to lose money, to make you feel warm and fuzzy.

You pay for advice, and the more you shop OS the less advice they can provide and they now have to compete on price alone.

20 years ago you could go to someone like Dick Smith Electronics and get good researched advice on the products they carry, try getting that same advice now, it is just Woolworths Electrical Supermarket.

If that is what you want then great, but I dont.

4 staff $250,000
Rent $100,000 pa
Insurances $100,000
Othe goings $100,000
Stock $$ depending on turnover etc.

So when you start to look at the figures, on a $1mil of stock cost, I have to make about 50% gross margin to just stay in business, $2mil and it is now 25%, $3mil 19% etc etc.

And you all want this for less than 10% margin on Australian volumes.

No one is disputing the cost of doing business, but when a telescope retails at 3 x the RETAIL cost of what it is in the US (in au $25k - in the US US$8k) There is absolutely nothing that can justify the price difference.

The retailers in the US have similar outgoings & they are still making profit on their retail price + the US retail price usually INCLUDES shipping within the US.
Try getting that here........


Buy it retail @ US$8k + AU$2k shipping to Brissy + AU$1k for taxes + an assumed AU retailers 50% profit = approx AU$17k
Still WAY below the current retail price of $25k

So where's the justification for the remaining AU$8k ????

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

I dropped by Bintel last Saturday, sign said closed, Michael was inside and he still ushered me in. The week before I spent 30 mins talking to them about imaging OTAs, with no intention of buying one that day, just wanted to know what my options were, yes, I will buy one in about 3 months.

That sort of service doesn't come for free in the longer term.

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by Louwai

No one is disputing the cost of doing business, but when a telescope retails at 3 x the RETAIL cost of what it is in the US (in au $25k - in the US US$8k) There is absolutely nothing that can justify the price difference.

The retailers in the US have similar outgoings & they are still making profit on their retail price + the US retail price usually INCLUDES shipping within the US.
Try getting that here........


Buy it retail @ US$8k + AU$2k shipping to Brissy + AU$1k for taxes + an assumed AU retailers 50% profit = approx AU$17k
Still WAY below the current retail price of $25k

So where's the justification for the remaining AU$8k ????

Turnover of $10mil+, it is a lot easier than $2mil to keep margins down. also have you ever tried to bargin with a manufacturer on 5 units per year.

As I said go and buy overseas, soon the whole Australian retail market will be belong to Woolworths with $30k pa staff who cant tell you what aisle the telescope is in, either that or only online and nowhere you can see or talk to person.

[Louwai (Bryan)]

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

I dropped by Bintel last Saturday, sign said closed, Michael was inside and he still ushered me in. The week before I spent 30 mins talking to them about imaging OTAs, with no intention of buying one that day, just wanted to know what my options were, yes, I will buy one in about 3 months.

That sort of service doesn't come for free in the longer term.

Fair comment.

I've spent a similar 20 to 30 mins in the Bintel shop in Melbourne, just browsing. Looking closely at EP's & the scopes on display.

No one came near me the whole time I was there. The 2 staff members were too busy with a female 'customer' at the counter.
Mind you, this particular instance was a few yrs ago. I've never been back since, so I'm sure things have changed (I would hope).

[leinad (Dan)]

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

As I said go and buy overseas, soon the whole Australian retail market will be belong to Woolworths with $30k pa staff who cant tell you what aisle the telescope is in, either that or only online and nowhere you can see or talk to person.

That's a bit of a ridiculous statement considering the demographics no?

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by leinad

That's a bit of a ridiculous statement considering the demographics no?

What's ridiculous about it?

I was proud to work for DSE in the 80's, try and get some real information from one of their staff nowadays. I was told black was white the last time I was in there, even though the box said black. .

[leinad (Dan)]

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

What's ridiculous about it?

I was proud to work for DSE in the 80's, try and get some real information from one of their staff nowadays. I was told black was white the last time I was in there, even though the box said black. .

These days you go to Jaycar instead.
DSE had it's position in the past, but there market position is over. My local DSE doesn't even stock white LED's anymore.

I meant more the fact of the Woolworth's comment.

[fuso (Anthony)]

It's just not astro stuff thats expensive in oz, how about fishing tackle?

Made in Japan squid jigs(yo-zuri, megabass, fish-leage,...etc) cost $25-$39 here , but I can buy them from any jap shop for $13-$17 USD each.
Yet fishing reels are about the same world wide (maybe 10% more in oz)

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by leinad

These days you go to Jaycar instead.
DSE had it's position in the past, but there market position is over. My local DSE doesn't even stock white LED's anymore.

I meant more the fact of the Woolworth's comment.

The Woolworths part comes from being DSE's parent company, take a great electronics company and turn it into a supermarket, selling only on price and range, not on advice, IMHO.

I had an argument with the my local DSE manager, as the DSE website said he had a particular part in stock, when he didnt. He just said not his problem and told me to complain to HO.

Now in my day, when I was a manager of the store, I would have been on the phone to HO 1) to correct the problem 2) to source the part.

[leinad (Dan)]

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

The Woolworths part comes from being DSE's parent company, take a great electronics company and turn it into a supermarket, selling only on price and range, not on advice, IMHO.

I had an argument with the my local DSE manager, as the DSE website said he had a particular part in stock, when he didnt. He just said not his problem and told me to complain to HO.

Now in my day, when I was a manager of the store, I would have been on the phone to HO 1) to correct the problem 2) to source the part.

Hmm.. still don't see how your point relates to the discussion. DSE is over!! Go to Jaycar. Thats' it.

I don't live in Brisbane or Sydney, so I can't visit one of these shops to see the products or have a one-to-one chat with the guys in the shops; to experience that service you're talking about.
Is it the same as if I call them? Worth the extra dollars?

This leaves me to one thing. Researching, reviewing, and buying the product via the website. So naturally what am I going to do. Want the cheapest price of course! If I can save 100's or even 1000's of dollars, that is a huge benefit to me and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

my 2c anyway...

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

I wasn't trying to single out any one business as better then any other, I just believe that until you have run your own business, you dont realise what you are really up against. Running a business is hard work, the money doesnt roll in the front door in trucks.

I have never owned my own business, but I have been the right hand man of someone who does and have seen his pain when left with $100k of stock and price bottoms out due to $$ fluctuations, a manufacturer who you have bet your house on goes belly up, a store room flooded, sweltered through summers of no air conditioning as you landlord cant get the parts to fix it for 6 weeks.

It is easy to pick up a pay cheque each week, it is harder to generate the business to pay that pay cheque.

If you take your time to get to know your local retailer, then they will treat you well. If you just shop on price, then that is all you will see and all you will ever find.