Just a Poll but no Posts on Global Warming

[anthony2302749]

Isn’t it strange what we worry about, once it was the threat of nuclear holocaust during the “Cold War” now it’s the perceived threat of Global Warming.

[toetoe (Peter)]

Originally Posted by FredSnerd

Yes you're right Fred but in my defense my wife was telling me the other day that studies have shown that when you present people with more then 3 choices their stress levels rise dramatically. So you might say I was just being considerate

My wife thinks I'll struggle because there is more than 2 choices but i proved her wrong

[Don Pensack]

Originally Posted by Kal

I cant my vote but sadly I think that it is all a moot point

Even if mankind were to acknowledge any potential problem in unison, I don't believe we have the ability as species to do anything. The exponential problems imposed by greed, corruption, and selfishness outweigh the will and ability and actions of the motivated when you scale up the size of the response to one for all mankind.

Ah, a perceptive comment.

[Neil]

I think as been previously stated the world has exsperience variations in temperature in the recent pass(2000 yrs or so).This seems a very convient argument for politicians to pursue and enlarge for there political interest, regardless of the climatic history.

[Don Pensack]

Originally Posted by Neil

I think as been previously stated the world has experienced variations in temperature in the recent past(2000 yrs or so).This seems a very convenient argument for politicians to pursue and enlarge for there political interest, regardless of the climatic history.

That the world has experienced great swings in temperature in the past does not mean that humans are not responsible for the one that is occurring now.
Human civilization is a fragile thing. Many cultures have broken down and failed throughout history because of ecological changes. Today's world is so over-populated that any form of major disruption in the growth and distribution of foodstuffs can have repercussions for global political stability.
The thing that makes me mad is that there are intelligent people who realize that Man is, indeed, causing changes in climate, yet they persist in not wanting to do anything about it because they don't want to have to live their lives any differently than the profligately wasting of resources way they do now.
To sum up: if you don't see a problem and don't do anything about it, you're simply ignorant. If you acknowledge the problem and don't do anything about it, then you're disrespecting your grandchildren.
Either way has the same result.
What I hope is that either there is a global change in thinking about the problem, or that somehow the ones who acknowledge the problem and see solutions ram it down the throats of those who don't and save their brethren despite protestations.
Can that happen? I hope so. Otherwise, I see a global dissolution of culture into armed barbarism. I may be dead before it becomes really bad, but I truly fear for the children and their children.

[Matt Wastell (Matt)]

Hi all
I care for the environment and do my little bit.
If there is global warming - it appears credible - I hope global cooling - it also appears cyclic and credible - balance each other out and we live on.
Still we need more space exploration as 'eventually' our planet will be uninhabitable.

[xnomad]

Seeing as comments have been made I've got a question.

Well,... actually first I'd better point out that I'm a fence sitter on this issue but that I lean towards the global warming believers side. I think even if it's a myth it can't hurt for us to take better care of our planet and make an effort to curb pollution, regardless if it's causing warming or not as we are certainly doing a great job of wiping out whole species. People who are sceptical and believe that this gives them the right to be ignorant and knowingly pollute should go find another planet. All you city 'bus-sized' SUV driving numpties I'm looking at you .. jokes aside here's my question:

I'm intrigued why so many convinced sceptics believe it's a scam by governments. Surely capatalist governments would be on the sceptics side as the biggest pressure groups are all large industry, oil, transport, manufacturing etc. and doing something about global warming means diverting tax dollars and greatly upsetting large industry. If you don't have these guys on your side then kiss the next election goodbye. So why do the sceptics use the scam argument? I can't think of a single large company that wouldn't be affected by measures used to ensure that carbon emissions are lower.

I can understand an ulterior motive for alternative fuel companies and other companies that are marketing greener products, but these companies are tiny compared to global oil, car and manufacturing giants who have economies bigger than small countries.

Ok I can understand that governments might have been misinformed but why would they knowingly buy into a scam, how would they profit from that?

P.S won't energy conscious societies do wonders for light pollution?

[FredSnerd (Claude)]

Originally Posted by xnomad

I'm intrigued why so many convinced sceptics believe it's a scam by governments. Surely capatalist governments would be on the sceptics side as the biggest pressure groups are all large industry, oil, transport, manufacturing etc. and doing something about global warming means diverting tax dollars and greatly upsetting large industry. If you don't have these guys on your side then kiss the next election goodbye. So why do the sceptics use the scam argument? I can't think of a single large company that wouldn't be affected by measures used to ensure that carbon emissions are lower.

I can understand an ulterior motive for alternative fuel companies and other companies that are marketing greener products, but these companies are tiny compared to global oil, car and manufacturing giants who have economies bigger than small countries.

xnomad,

I couldnt agree with you more. The logic of the argument is just so askew, you have to wonder if they dont have some other reasons for denying global warming that they're not saying.

[norm]

Ok I can understand that governments might have been misinformed but why would they knowingly buy into a scam, how would they profit from that?

I would think that most decent people do not have an issue with reducing waste, water comsumption, recycling etc - regardless whether you're a believer, sceptic or fence sitter.

From a government perspective, in particularly ours, they won't lose anything if the ETS comes to fruition. Its just another money grabbing scam at the absolute worst level.

Is it going to change my driving habits, my usage of electricity, water - not likely.

Norm

[FredSnerd (Claude)]

Originally Posted by norm

Its just another money grabbing scam at the absolute worst level.

Norm

How??? How are they going to make $$$ out of this. And most importantly, how will the $$$ they make offset the losses to decreased coal sales (which is a massive export industry in this country and a huge source of government revenue) and disensentives to energy consumption and all other forms of consumptions due to emission restrictions. If you ask me the only people playing scam politics are the flat earth global warming deniers.

[AdrianF (Adrian)]

I think we are just in a cycle that happens every so often, but, as a disclaimer I think we are accelerating the cycle with all the greenhouse gasses.
my tuppence worth.

Adrian

[norm]

How??? How are they going to make $$$ out of this. And most importantly, how will the $$$ they make offset the losses to decreased coal sales (which is a massive export industry in this country and a huge source of government revenue) and disensentives to energy consumption and all other forms of consumptions due to emission restrictions. If you ask me the only people playing scam politics are the flat earth global warming deniers.

Its called tax! The government will find other means of getting back their revenue believe me. The other scam will be all those niche financiers, brokers and new spin off companies/subsiduaries dealing with emissions trading - they will make a nice tidy profit in the process.

Cheers Norm

[Bobbyoutback]

What ever we do is equal to zilch , the so called emerging economies will overwhelm us anyway .
I,m not ready to pay extra for a hopeless cause !

Welcome to planet greed .

Bobby.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Originally Posted by Bobbyoutback

What ever we do is equal to zilch , the so called emerging economies will overwhelm us anyway .
I,m not ready to pay extra for a hopeless cause !

Welcome to planet greed .

Bobby.

Ahmen, well said .

[Bobbyoutback]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

Ahmen, well said .

Thanks Fred , good to hear from another realist
Cheers Bobby

[TrevorW]

As demonstrated in a recent thread showing a smog cloud over China.

What's going to happen when the Chinese become more affluent (that's not effluent) and production moves more into India and then Africa etc

Govt's don't really give a hoot at the end of the day as long as they appear to be doing something to placate the masses while not undermining the the wealth of that 5%

[xelasnave]

I think we should have more faith in our leaders...

a tax is sure to work to save the planet...and if the tax does not work the wonderful power of the market will do the job so salute the carbon trading market idea as no doubt trading will save the day... so why folk think that a tax and a trading scheme wont work is beyond me..

having no actual control or bearing on carbon output but still getting a percentage of the take of somethiong cant be that bad..can it???.

look if we have a trading of carbon credits and folk make money is that not cool...may not save the planet but hey some will really enjoy it whilst they are here from their new found weath gained from trading something that many will say is BS..who cares?

we have to do something so even if a stupid course is selected it has to be better than not doing anything..who can argue with such lodgic??? yes wonderful lodgic who could question such wonderful logic even if profit driven ..only a fool... who I bet also has the hide to question the science of folk employed to find a specific result...

AND think of how the banning of incandecent light globes will ...apart from making the guy selling the flouro lights rich beyond belief....save the world...soon it will be easier to get smack or crack than to buy an incandecent light... so important things are being done... still I would like to see car racing stopped and all the things that burn fuel wastefully for no result other than personal ego driven satisafction just stopped...no more burning carbone wastefully just stopped..rather simple approach but could work...going around and around on a race track is not transport but only a pastime for those preoccupied in beating a similar car by a split second..bottle the man juice and get real....no formula one, no v8's etc etc etc etc etc...I know you need only one etc..but how can I suggest the number of stupid pursuits that humans engage in with one etc...

really folks get real... the science is suspect or it is not but if you fall on the side of humans caused global warming why settle for the limp crap offerred to fix it... change all the lights you wish but doing that before banning racing and city night lights simply makes the idea look stupid, and in the realm of fools without bite... if you believe why settle for the tame crap you are happy to see as a fix it..limp pathetic and ineffectual... if the science is correct that is offerred to support human contribution why settle for such half baked solutions..they wont work so give it in or do something that will work..put up or shut up.... why accept a tax and trading of carbon if the matter is so grave... it is like saying the boat is sinking so lets paint the cabin but lets not really address the real issues like the hole in the hull.. ..do you know how lame this sounds such that the common folk think all involved are fools...credibility is the first hurdle...dont say we have to do something and settle for leaving all the car racing and consumptive crap out there...focus and get real or give it up...otherwise the common folk may suspect it is just anoither scame to get more cash from their pockets... and we all know it is not that but an attempt to save the planet... mmm if the kids see thru the money making and demand real action well what will be done then???

If humans cause it I suggest that there is no way humans can fix it..all that can be done is to adjust to a world the science has foretold....for mine I say warming will not stop...it will get hotter and changing light bulbs may not help I am sorry to say...getting hotter is the Suns ultimate destiny...RED GIANT... so one day..one day humans will have to admit there is no control but only the power of adjustment to new circumstances. Look at history..the cities etc that had it all but then it got hotter drier etc...but somehow humanity continued... move folks ..simplely move... but dont burn carbon to get there OK?

You know what makes me mad..those folk who say the only reason we will have energy getting more and more expensive (becuase of tax etc) is only to make Neuclear power affordable and acceptable... why do they let fools like that live anyways..folk who have an opinion that does not suit the science should be shot... well at least spat upon as Kevin would no doubt agree.... there is only one side to any arguement and why should others have any input at all as they are obviously fools if they dont agree...
alex

[KenGee (Kenith Gee)]

As noted before the level of scientific literacy displayed by many on this site is very depressing to me. Climate science is played out in the relevant science journals, not in popular books or websites or worst mainstream media. How many of the commenter here and on all the other threads have bothered to go to primary sources, to read the scientific literature? Most of you seem to be little more than shopping around to find a guru who’s world view aligns to your own.
I’m directing my comments to both sides here, an uninformed opinion is often worst then no opinion at all. I do realise that proper understanding maybe beyond some people but we should all make an attempt.
I think anyone interested in science should subscribe to at least one science journal. Journals like “Nature” or “The Astrophysical Journal” for us astronomy buff’s There is also plenty of free journals as well.
A list of climate science journals
http://www.eecg.utoronto.ca/~prall/climate/journals.html

[marki]

I saw a film like this once, it was called "Groundhog Day" where the same thing just kept happening over and over again, bit like this debate .

Mark

[Davekyn (David)]

Just kidding, keep on crunching the numbers & stoke the chimneys...It's pretty obvious where were going...Lights up his Pipe & ponders? Questions Questions Questions...& more Questions...Tick Tick Tick ...I'd add maybe to Taxes, instead of culling the animal populations like we do, that we consider letting a few strains of influenza go untreated...mmmmmmmmmm...A few less billion in just the right spots across the world ?

Hey Alex...You still got all that rain forest between Old Banalbo & Ubenville (If in fact that's where I think your near)...Used to love taking shelter from the summer heat by doing some long hikes with my old army reserve buddies. Beautiful country (Cool As/little running creaks with clean water/awesome wildlife & plant species..et..)...hope its still just as good your way. Having lived in amongst the hills round Urbenville and Woodenbong...I often dream when the rest of this place dries out somewhat more, that little pockets of rainforest out your way, might still exist.
Dave