How would you like to own your own Dark Sky observing site?
Open to you whenever you wish. 24x7
Yours to build your own shed or observatory or tent on.
Sharing with 16 other like minded entusiasts.
Away from main roads and sky glow.
17 acres of land in total.
So 17 owners sounds logical.
Great views.
At Bucketty.
(yeah thats where that other observatory is located)
Its listed for just $260,000.
But the wife wont approve the finance, so ...
I am looking for just another 16 enthusiasts with $15,000 each.
It is a solid investment, if nothing else.
Consider the possibilities.
Last edited by Allan_L; 04-11-2009 at 10:48 PM.
Reason: cant spell
I'd expect the council won't let it be subdivided into 17 x 1 acre lots. That means you're stuck with one title, which is where it will get ugly - for a group of people to own it collectively, I've seen contracts full of fine print the size of phone books.
If someone wants out later on, must the others buy him out, or not, and how on earth is the price to be agreed ? It's hard enough to reach an agreement between two people, let alone 10 or 15 others. And then there's maintenance...
I'm with your wife on this one. Unless its your own place I wouldn't do it, and if you really think its an investment, its all yours.
How about forming the Ice In Space Dark Site Cooperative?
I'm neither a legal expert nor a real estate person but consider this...
At present there are 6,747 members...if each "joined" the Coop at $38.53 each you would have your new dark site.
Yes, I know it is not that easy but you get the idea.
Cooperative owns it and is run by an elected (yet unpaid) staff/committe.
Annual dues/assesments (or use fees) could generate upkeep and improvements...
Not sure about Coop Law in Australia but each contributor would then have a share of the Coop, they would be valued at assets divided by number of outstanding shares...value changes with the change in assets, a share is transferable etc. etc. In the USA Coops get certain favorable tax treatments as they are not designed to make profit only deliver a service...
If the Coop ever "Wound Down" the parcel is sold and revenue distributed to the Coop share holders...no tears!
I love the idea Allan, and have had it before myself, too!
To work, you would be best advised to create a corporate entity which acquires the land, and the 17 "owners" would be shareholders in the company with equal shareholding. There would need to be financial contributions agreed to under a Shareholders agreement to deal with such issues as upkeep and maintenance, council rates, insurances, access to and use of the facilities etc.
Because the company would have as its purpose an educational/ community based purpose, it may, if properly formed (it might for example be an incorporated association), obtain some relief from council rates etc.
I do not agree with the comment of one respondent that the legal documents would need to be the size of a phone book. I could ask one of our commercial/property lawyers at work to provide a guesstimate as to what the costs would be to prepare the documentation if there is sufficient interest.
Thinking practically, power could be an issue. I know someone who lives at Bucketty, and it cost him something like $40K to get power connected because of the remoteness of his location.
The order of things would have to be to first get the company formed, the shareholding in place from the raising of capital, the election of a board of directors, and then, once all of this is in place, steps being taken to acquire the property. Enough capital would have to be raised to cover legal fees and stamp duty as well as the purchase price itself.
All this can be done, it is simply a question of willingness and determination.
Not for profit, Incorporated association is quite simple, no tax, once a year financial statement, low fees.
Main issue will be the initial cash and ongoing maintenance cost.
You need to start off with some research in to how many people ( mainly local ) would be keen enough to use the site regularly ( aside and including share cost considerations) and how much they would be prepared to pay for the privelage.
You might need to have some system to charge non-members to use the site to help cover costs ( if thats possible). Having a permanent site opens up possibilities of a full time caretaker and perhaps a serious internet connected telescope which would be another way to help cover costs and develop the site. Overseas visitors could pay reasonable money for southern facilities.
Perhaps and IIS poll would be a good start ?
I know the Buckety area is not very flat . How much usable flat land is there for developing personal observatory sites without major earthmoving involved ?
I don't see why power couldn't be produced from solar and wind 24volt and meet casual needs.
I have a dormant 24" f4 binocular project that would be re-awakened with somewhere to house it.
D.A. APPROVED! VENDOR EXTREMELY MOTIVATED - MAKE OFFER
If you love to watch the sun set over the mountains then this property is for you!
Located a short distance off the main road and just a touch over 17 acres, with one of the best outlooks you will see. Great views looking out over the Murray's Run Valley, Mt Yango & The Great Dividing Range. With D.A. approval you can build your dream home and make the most of the spectacular views.
I found it. And now they have dropped the price to "offers over $200,000"
I am looking for acres (with clear skies) in that direction to live on although search is in it's infancy.
If and when i find somewhere you are welcome to come up whenever, even bring the tents and stay a few days over the new moon. Even looking as far as Laguna.
One of the search criteria is that must have 360 degree sky view, a big clear paddock and power ( suppose will have to have a solid road for Jacobs mobile appendage)
I live in Sydney, but FYI my mum owns a ~200 acre property (Horse Stud) several minutes north of Bucketty (Koolang Observatory). Accommodation on-site is available for 14 people, usually at a cost of $40/head per night...
If however there were a group of people (say 5+) who would be interested in using the property for astronomy purposes - I could probably arrange something with my mum for you to get a cheaper rate.
EDIT: If it were to be a continuous thing, i.e. every 2-3 months I could probably work out something even better... but let's see what the interest is first.
Site has dark skies, is in a bit of a valley but there is plenty of flat paddock available to set up equipment on, site has power, running water, kitchen w/ convection microwave, 2 ensuite bathrooms, TV & DVD, fans, column heater, BBQ, etc.
I will try to keep an eye on this thread but I have exams coming up. I will likely be heading up the end of november, beginning of december to try out my first proper scope, a Celestron Astromaster 90.
I live in Sydney, but FYI my mum owns a ~200 acre property (Horse Stud) several minutes north of Bucketty (Koolang Observatory). Accommodation on-site is available for 14 people, usually at a cost of $40/head per night...
If however there were a group of people (say 5+) who would be interested in using the property for astronomy purposes - I could probably arrange something with my mum for you to get a cheaper rate.
EDIT: If it were to be a continuous thing, i.e. every 2-3 months I could probably work out something even better... but let's see what the interest is first.
Site has dark skies, is in a bit of a valley but there is plenty of flat paddock available to set up equipment on, site has power, running water, kitchen w/ convection microwave, 2 ensuite bathrooms, TV & DVD, fans, column heater, BBQ, etc.
I will try to keep an eye on this thread but I have exams coming up. I will likely be heading up the end of november, beginning of december to try out my first proper scope, a Celestron Astromaster 90.
Hi Luke,
Welcome aboard!
Thanks for posting here, and we may well take you up on your offer. We can chat about it anyway.
Now, when you come up to visit, make sure to call into the current observing site at Mangrove Mountain, lovingly called the Pony Club. You will see a thread in this forum detailing the date(s) (around the New Moon) and there is a sticky thread with directions.
You will find a group of friendly people, with lots of knowledge to share, who will be only to glad to help you with your set up and best use of your new scope. Polar alignment etc. You try different eyepieces with your scope for example. And you'll be able to look through the various scopes if you wish too.
We are always happy to welcome new comers and help as we can. And I can guarantee you will be glad you did.
:th anx:
