Extra-terrestrials (Aliens) - A Poll

[Tandum (Robin)]

I'll add something.

I'm sure that life has evolved elsewhere in this universe but I think when is the question. Even our own solar system is a rebuild from a previous system and we know this because we have heavy metals on earth which can only be produced in an exploding star.

They say the universe is 13.7 billion years old. We took 40 million years to get where we are and it's more than likely we will disappear within another thousand years, left to our own devices, so if all intelligent life has a use by date of 40 million years before it kills itself, there could have been thousands of intelligent life forms in this universe before us and after us.

It's quite possible that at this point in time we are it, but who can tell. The light we see from stars is only a few hundred years old which is really a drop in the ocean of time. We have only had the capability to look out there with electronic ears for something like 30 odd years. I think the question needs to be reviewed.

Did or will ET exist.

[leinad (Dan)]

I'd say yes. And we've been in contact already.

One only has to look at Ancient texts and wonder what it all meant, did the ancients really have flying machines, advanced technology etc.
Then one might ask, where is the evidence then?; or then again was it just documentation of what existed on another world. Maybe another world within our own neighbourhood?

I've been listening to some interesting works by Joseph P. Farrell. "Cosmic War: Interplanetary Warfare, Modern Physics and Ancient Texts"

All for reading of course with an open mind, and a pinch of salt; but interesting here and there nonetheless.

my 2c.

[leinad (Dan)]

Originally Posted by Tandum

I'll add something.

I'm sure that life has evolved elsewhere in this universe but I think when is the question. Even our own solar system is a rebuild from a previous system and we know this because we have heavy metals on earth which can only be produced in an exploding star.

They say the universe is 13.7 billion years old. We took 40 million years to get where we are and it's more than likely we will disappear within another thousand years, left to our own devices, so if all intelligent life has a use by date of 40 million years before it kills itself, there could have been thousands of intelligent life forms in this universe before us and after us.

It's quite possible that at this point in time we are it, but who can tell. The light we see from stars is only a few hundred years old which is really a drop in the ocean of time. We have only had the capability to look out there with electronic ears for something like 30 odd years. I think the question needs to be reviewed.

Did or will ET exist.

Well written viewpoint Tandum. Got me thinking.

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

The Universe is infinite.
There is a finite amount of intelligent life within it.
Infinity divided by a finite number is near enough to nothing to make no difference.
Douglas Adams.

[Tandum (Robin)]

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

The Universe is infinite.
There is a finite amount of intelligent life within it.
Infinity divided by a finite number is near enough to nothing to make no difference.
Douglas Adams.

He supposes there is just one universe

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

There are soooooo many "freaky" conditions that were super-luckily in place for us to be here at all.

Couldn't agree more. The solar system is located far enough from the center of our galaxy. We're at the right distance from the sun and our orbit is near circular, the earth axis is tilted and the moon keeps it relatively stable, it revolves in 24h, just good enough to keep it warm without cooking it, and if that's not enough we have plenty of water, a thick enough atmosphere not to worry about a lot of meteorites impacts and most of all a magnetosphere to protect us from the sun's radiation. Now that's freaky enough. Sounds like we won Lotto big time. Even though life took millions of years to kick in with the right conditions, and us as "modern humans" we've been around for how long? 3000, 4000 years? ... and one big rock could end all this.

But given the number of stars out there wouldn't it be reasonable to assume there is a chance that the same conditions are met somewhere else to provide for complex life form development? It's a numbers game really isn't it?

As to visit each other, not a chance IMHO. The distances involved are just far too huge.

[TrevorW]

Originally Posted by multiweb

Couldn't agree more. The solar system is located far enough from the center of our galaxy. We're at the right distance from the sun and our orbit is near circular, the earth axis is tilted and the moon keeps it relatively stable, it revolves in 24h, just good enough to keep it warm without cooking it, and if that's not enough we have plenty of water, a thick enough atmosphere not to worry about a lot of meteorites impacts and most of all a magnetosphere to protect us from the sun's radiation. Now that's freaky enough. Sounds like we won Lotto big time. Even though life took millions of years to kick in with the right conditions, and us as "modern humans" we've been around for how long? 3000, 4000 years? ... and one big rock could end all this.

But given the number of stars out there wouldn't it be reasonable to assume there is a chance that the same conditions are met somewhere else to provide for complex life form development? It's a numbers game really isn't it?

As to visit each other, not a chance IMHO. The distances involved are just far too huge.

Don't just suppose intelligent life needs the same conditons we have to exist, I don't think it would be an absolute requirement

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Don't just suppose intelligent life needs the same conditons we have to exist, I don't think it would be an absolute requirement

Well I'd say intelligent life emerges from biodiversity and evolution so you'd need a fair bit of "favourable conditions" to start with yeah. Has any research been done on multi cellular complex organisms developing in other conditions than ours?

[TrevorW]

I believe it has thats why we have these too branches of biology

xenobiology
and astrobiology

[renormalised (Carl)]

As to visit each other, not a chance IMHO. The distances involved are just far too huge.

Yet, only a little over 100 years ago, we couldn't fly. 60 years ago, we couldn't even get into orbit, let alone leave the planet. Look how far we've come in such a short time. What will we do in another 50-200 years, let alone 500-1000 years. Nothing within reason is impossible.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by renormalised

Yet, only a little over 100 years ago, we couldn't fly. 60 years ago, we couldn't even get into orbit, let alone leave the planet. Look how far we've come in such a short time. What will we do in another 50-200 years, let alone 500-1000 years. Nothing within reason is impossible.

I guess that back then Carl, humans did not know if boundaries existed as the science wasn't there to suggest them or draw hypotheses from.

Now it is.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by renormalised

Yet, only a little over 100 years ago, we couldn't fly. 60 years ago, we couldn't even get into orbit, let alone leave the planet. Look how far we've come in such a short time. What will we do in another 50-200 years, let alone 500-1000 years. Nothing within reason is impossible.

True but not so long ago Jules Vernes was shooting a canon shell with people inside on the moon. We got there but after practical considerations it took a bit longer and wasn't as simple as first thought. I'm just hinting to the "Warp 5 Mr. Worf! Engage!" . Is this likely to happen?

[TrevorW]

I'm a great exponent of human expansion of our galaxy using what has often been propostioned that of century ships.

Our ancestors used to travel for months in couped up ships to get from one point to another what is too say our childrens, childrens, children won't do the same to travel the stars.

Whats to say other species ain't already out there doing likewise.

"Oh well this planet is already overpopulated by sentient beings, lets move on, then shall we"

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

I guess that back then Carl, humans did not know if boundaries existed as the science wasn't there to suggest them or draw hypotheses from.

Now it is.

That's not all that long ago, Chris. Relativity was around and so was just about every other major physics theory. What they hadn't done by then was have those few inventors and scientists who were bold enough to think outside the accepted paradigm and take those risks in experimenting with the wacky, "impossible" and "unacceptable". Look where it got us when they did

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by multiweb

True but not so long ago Jules Vernes was shooting a canon shell with people inside on the moon. We got there but after practical considerations it took a bit longer and wasn't as simple as first thought. I'm just hinting to the "Warp 5 Mr. Worf! Engage!" . Is this likely to happen?

It was only 104 years between his cannon shot and the actual Moon landing...not as long as you may think

Who knows when they will be able to say "Set a course for Earth Mr Worf, maximum warp...engage.", but I will make a prediction and say it'll be before the end of the next century, probably (maybe) before the end of this one.

How's that for confidence

[Baddad (Marty)]

Hi All,

A lot of good points raised on this subject. The Rare Earth Theory. I recently learnt about it. Again a good arguement.

To me life seems to be so resilient. It seems to find a way to survive no matter how violent the conditions are. (Within some reason ofcourse).
Extremophiles, living in physically or geochemically extreme conditions. They exist.

On Earth extreme conditions are comparatively rare. Therefore lessens the chance for complex life forms to develope or evolve much more than their current state in these nasty conditions.

If a large portion of a planet were homogeneous and extreme it stands a better chance for a more complex life form to develope.

IMHO the Rare Earth theory does not hold much water for me.

The String Theory and multiple dimensions leads me to conclude that we know so little about Everything (pun intended).

Perhaps other life forms are not able to be recognised by us if they exist.

Simply because of the great resilience of what life has displayed on this Earth we can not discount it not existing outside of the solar system.
Particularly where there are friendlier environments than what the extremophiles live in.

Cheers Marty

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by renormalised

It was only 104 years between his cannon shot and the actual Moon landing...not as long as you may think

Who knows when they will be able to say "Set a course for Earth Mr Worf, maximum warp...engage.", but I will make a prediction and say it'll be before the end of the next century, probably (maybe) before the end of this one.

How's that for confidence

That's optimism mate. I like that If we're capable of such technology in the near future and I hope we do then it would be fair to assume that others would have it too and would be in a position to come and visit us? I just hope it's not the vogons

[renormalised (Carl)]

I just hope it's not the vogons http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/....milies/lol.gif

No need to worry, I've already put in an objection to the overpass with the ITA (Interstellar Transport Authority). They don't like the Vogon construction crews that much, anyway

[bloodhound31]

I don't think anyone is narrow minded for thinking either way.

In saying that I still try to keep a logical mind.

So, I think there are two outcomes and one must find out which is the case:

1. If the conditions for life to spontaneously spark here were a once-off, never to be repeated and unique set of circumstances, then we are it and that's that.

2. If it has happened in even ONE other place, the conditions and circumstances are not unique. This means they can and definately will be repeated many times over in this infinite universe. Therefore life would be all over the universe. As life is such a fierce survivor, the forms would be wide and varied, able to survive in some form or another in a huge range of conditions.

That very idea for me, supports the "no" option. We find water in multitudes of places with life in most of it. All be it small, but it's there. From the 700-degree geothermal vents where extremophiles live under great pressure and no light from the sun, to the depths of frozen ice packs in the poles, to the inside of the driest rock in the driest hottest dessert. I'm pretty sure there are lots more extreme examples of life on Earth than I can provide. There is water all over the solar system and looks like it must be all over the universe as it is made from the most basic elements. Plenty of opportunities for favorable conditions IMHO.

If our space probes and exploration give us some solid evidence of life in space or on other planets that can be proven they didn't somehow get smashed off the Earth and commuted, I will of course, have to re-evaluate.

Both impartial arguments are equally strong and it will have to come down to proof.

Until then, I am happy to ponder the possibility and wonder what that life would be like, if they are in God's plan, if it's His intent to show us when we are ready, or whether he has left it up to us to go find out for ourselves one way or the other. For now, I think we are very special and loved. All this for us!!??? WOW.

[shane.mcneil]

At the risk of sounding really dumb, why don't the percentages in this poll add up to 100%?