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  #1  
Old 25-10-2009, 08:52 PM
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A fifth for Stu Parker -- SN 2009kl in IC 2548

Hi All,

Can't believe I'm typing another one of these but ...

Following hard on the heels of another announcement here a matter of days ago, CBET 1993: 20091024 announces that Stu Parker (in collaboration with C. Drescher, Calamvale Queensland) has discovered his fifth supernova this year in IC 2548 a 14th magnitude spiral galaxy in Antlia.

Well done again fellas!


Best,

Les D

P.S this is getting a bit repetitive ...

Last edited by ngcles; 25-10-2009 at 11:13 PM.
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  #2  
Old 25-10-2009, 08:57 PM
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Amazing ! He really puts in the hours.
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  #3  
Old 25-10-2009, 09:00 PM
dpastern (Dave Pastern)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngcles View Post
P.S this is getting a bit repetitive ...
Congrats Stu - awesome work. Do we know what type SN yet?

Les - it is, but may it keep happening

Dave
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  #4  
Old 25-10-2009, 09:04 PM
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wow another one - well done fellas
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  #5  
Old 25-10-2009, 09:33 PM
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Fantastic effort Stu. et al.
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  #6  
Old 25-10-2009, 09:36 PM
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renormalised (Carl)
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Well Stu, #5 done and dusted, now for #6
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  #7  
Old 25-10-2009, 11:06 PM
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This is becoming a habit and I thought they weren't that frequent

well done again
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  #8  
Old 25-10-2009, 11:41 PM
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#5 Supernova nice work Stu its been a great year for you good on ya mate
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  #9  
Old 25-10-2009, 11:55 PM
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Stuart Paker (Stu) is currently one of the most prolific amateur supernova discoverers in the world with 5 discoveries in only 4 months. An achievement he, and I know we are proud of.
While as many as 500ish SN are detected each year the bulk are by professional searches but amateur discoveries are still very valuable to the science. i.e. The young teenager Caroline Moore (USA) who last year discovered what may yet be another class of SN in 2008ha (a failed SN?) 1000 times dimmer than a typical supernova. Stu's 2009jz last week which has been classed as a subluminous type 1a event. So while the understanding of SN triggers seems well established, astronomers still have unaswered questions. The current discovery numbers while some years up/ down depending on professional searches, are likely to dramatically increase 10/100/1000 fold in coming years as more and more sky surveys come on line. From an amateur astronomers viewpoint the important thing right now is that Stu is successful because he is doing what Bob Evans always spoke about with his searching - play the numbers game. Sure get all your reference images, equipment etc up to the challenge, but image lots of galaxies often, never give up and you will be successful.
Stu does exactly this and he does it very well, congratulations yet again Stu!
PeterM.

Last edited by PeterM; 26-10-2009 at 09:31 AM.
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  #10  
Old 26-10-2009, 12:38 AM
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Kal (Andrew)
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Wow, groundhog day!

Well done Stu!
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  #11  
Old 29-10-2009, 08:42 PM
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Hi All,
Once again many thanks for your comments it is great to hear them.The team worked well again to get this one but it took a bit of work with some early morning conformation images that I had to do.
really looking forward to catching up with Peter next month when I come over for our first Supernova Conference
Thanks again lets hope for alot more

Stu
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Old 30-10-2009, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorW View Post
This is becoming a habit and I thought they weren't that frequent

well done again
I remember back in the 70s when Tomm Cragg (spelling??), who was then at the AAO, was trying to kick off amateur supernova searches. He thought that amateurs might be able to find one supernova per year _worldwide_. That was based on his estimate of supernova frequency and the number of galaxies he expected to be checked per year. Clearly that is a huge underestimate. I don't know whether his estimate of their frequency was wrong but he certainly didn't imagine the amount of work some people have put into this project, nor the improvement in equipment.
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  #13  
Old 31-10-2009, 06:36 PM
dpastern (Dave Pastern)
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Hi All,
Once again many thanks for your comments it is great to hear them.The team worked well again to get this one but it took a bit of work with some early morning conformation images that I had to do.
really looking forward to catching up with Peter next month when I come over for our first Supernova Conference
Thanks again lets hope for alot more

Stu
Stu (and others), what's the chances of a detailed walk through of what exactly needs to be done (and how it is actually done) from start to finish and reporting to the IAU etc? That'd be really cool!

Dave
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  #14  
Old 04-11-2009, 01:10 AM
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Hi Dave,

Sorry this is long. Read all this or just go straight to the links at the bottom.

Easiest if I go through my set up.

30cm LX200R on Alt/Az Goto mount (light gathering). Optec F7 focal reducer (wide field of view). Starlight Xpress SXVH9 monochrome camera (very sensitive and good QE) Observatory, warm/mozzie proof room.
The Sky6 (telescope control) and Orchestrate (scripting).

My target list is of 1000 far Southern Spiral Galaxies brighter than mag 14.

Now most important - Reference Images.
Initially the Thompson/Bryan Supernova Search Charts (ok visual not so for imaging) and Alex Wassillieff (New Zealand) CCD images - about 3,000 Southern Galaxies, a great reference, becoming dated. But more important my own reference image library that I have built up over the last few years (same scale, compare apples with apples).

So what I do is make a script in Orchestrate to slew to a target set of galaxies, typically 100 per night. I then take 25 second images and compare them visually (on the screens) to ones I have saved in The SKY6. 25 seconds is a good compromise in that I can get down to mag 18.

While this viewing one on one slows my data collection down it has brought very good results with 3 Supernova in 15 months. I was Johnnny on the spot so to speak, unlike most of my colleagues I didn't automate the process i.e. take lots of images then blink them (overlay reference image on new image) the next day and run the risk of it being announced by someone else in the meantime, while waiting to take a confirming image the next night. I had each of the 3 right in front of me right then so I knew something was not right, and all I had to do was image them over the next few hours to eliminate the possibility of an unknown minor planet (would move over several hours) or a Klingon vessel being photon torpedoed by the Enterprise - would disappear (just checking you are still awake).

So each night I archive all my images in date order (just in case I miss one, and I have). If the new images are better than what I have previously kept as reference images (better seeing, transparency) I keep those and have written a script into the SKY6 (with lots of help from Daniel Bisque, thanks!) so that when I click on the SKY6 screen that galaxy reference image comes up.

Ok so now a suspect (and that's all it is at this stage).
First let me say that it is vital you read the links below to the IAU (International Astronomical Union) / CBAT (Central Bureau Astronomical Telegrams) and fully understand their requirements. I do not want to give any wrong advice and CBATs is very clear in what they expect. What I will now write is just based on my experiences.

Take several (many) images and if the suspect object is still in the same position after say at least an hour, during which time you will have checked for known minor planets and variable stars, as well as a rough (or good) position and magnitude, then seek the assistance of others to take a confirming image. While you can confirm your own discoveries, in the first instance/report having someone else also confirm would be very useful, and we have a pretty good network of willing people to assist anytime of night.

You need accurate Astrometry and Photometry from sources such as Astrometrica to give the precise position, magnitude and offset of the suspect object (arc seconds NSEW galaxy centre).

You need a previous negative image that has a limiting magnitude below the faintest in your image. The Digitised Sky Survey Images are very useful here i.e. "Nothing is visible at the position of the Supernova suspect on a Digitised Survey Image from 1996 10 04 limiting red magnitude 20R (red)."

If you are using other amateurs images as negative reference images then it is important that the limiting magnitude of your image is not greater than theirs, otherwise it might just be a star visible in your image and not theirs.

Kirk to bridge damage status... (good you are still here).

Armed with all this information you can then compile a report to send to CBAT - ALWAYS must be in PLAIN text and NEVER ever send images. CBAT are the filter for lots of nonsense (I saw a UFO, a Comet, 3 inches to the left of the Moon last week) and they have to assess what is real and if your information is not precise and in the manner outlined below it is likely to end up in the trash can or just be left until more info is sent. If you are very lucky they may request more info. Remember when CBAT issue the CBET (email advice) it goes to major observatories, subscribers etc who rely on on that advice being accurate. Major observatories may even break into valuable observing runs or act on the advice. CBAT do not like having to retract a CBET, especially if you didn't do your homework i.e. not checking for known minor planets and variable stars, this is absolutely not acceptable.

So what happens next? Well if all is correct with confirmation data etc it will be issued as a CBET with a discovery number i.e. SN2008fa in NGC6722 discovered by Marples etc.etc.etc.

If for some reason there is information still needed i.e You only got one image then it clouded or dawn broke and you will get another image tomorrow night you can still send report with all the information you would include in a normal report, noting you will provide confirming data later (and why). It will then most likely be placed on the CBAT Unconfirmed Objects Page for all interested to see - your report has been taken seriously but more info is required. From this page other interested parties anywhere in the world may be able to confirm your discovery i.e. we have seen Supernova on this page confirmed by say the Brazillian Supernova Search Team. By being on the Unconfirmed Objects Page once confirmed you will still get full discovery status as it has now been reported here, just hasn't been announced yet.

From here your discoverey will be listed on the official IAU site, The Bright Supernova Page etc. From the CBET professional astronomers will likely take spectra of your discovery to "Type" it, that is determine if it is a Type 1a, Type 2 etc and gain valuable knowledge from the data. They will compare it to other SN to see if it is similar to them based on a SN identification system they use. It maybe that your SN has some unusual characteristics and get even more follow up as one of Stuart Parkers did when the VLA turned its attention to it.

The future for me is to experiment with some automation, a blinking tool to increase my numbers (and make sure I don't miss another), but still check the images before closing the observatory roof.

I consider myself lucky that I have several talented friends who assist in the follow up process so I don't do much of the astrometry and photometry. With my discoveries, Stuart Parkers discoveries and assistance on a couple of others we have now had involvement in 10 discoveries in less than 15 months. We have a good understanding that this is not competetive rather co-operative and we are all mates.

Sorry this has waffled on long enough, suffice to say one discovery will set you up financially for life, least that is what I once said to my wife, now I say no its 5.....

A fun part of a great hobby.... err obsession.

http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/HowTo...Discovery.html

http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/DiscoveryInfo.html

Peter M.

Last edited by PeterM; 04-11-2009 at 01:44 AM.
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  #15  
Old 04-11-2009, 03:08 AM
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citivolus (Ric)
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Originally Posted by PeterM View Post
30cm LX200R on Alt/Az Goto mount (light gathering). Optec F7 focal reducer (wide field of view). Starlight Xpress SXVH9 monochrome camera (very sensitive and good QE)
Since the last SAS meeting I've been meaning to ask you, filtered or unfiltered? I assume for photometry purposes later on you would need at least a V filter. Also, do your reference images match in terms of filtering? A "hot" star may show up brighter in an unfiltered image, for example, than it would if an IR filter was in place, so if you are using a survey as your reference this would need to be taken into consideration.

Also, what are you using to cross check against variable stars?

Regards,
Eric
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  #16  
Old 04-11-2009, 09:47 AM
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Hi Eric,
My images are unfiltered. I think that is why Colin uses the red survey images from the various DSS surveys so I think the red survey is a good match. V filters I think are usefeful for measuring the visual magnitude by evening out the differences in the various ccd chips available and the bulk of SN discoveries are very faint and not likely to be observed visually. I think the AAVSO charts are based on V mags. In fact many of the discovery CBETs I see by other amateurs are all unfiltered and use the red survey as their reference, so long as you specify to CBAT which survey is used as a reference image. Colin also checks the IR survey, as in Stuarts case his ST8 is more IR sensitive. This recently showed a faint suspect what turned out to be a variable M star that was in Stu's image, was in the IR survey but not on the red survey. Colin uses both the GCVS and AAVSO's online list of variable stars. Colin knows this stuff inside out so he can probably give you better information than I have. He will be at the meeting on Saturday night.

PeterM.
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  #17  
Old 05-11-2009, 12:24 AM
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OK, thanks. I suspected that they would be unfiltered just for maximum sensitivity, with follow-ups being filtered for the photometric component.

Thanks for the reminder about Saturday

Regards,
Eric
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