And you thought Oz Astro-retailers were bad...

[Outbackmanyep]

When it comes to MONEY morals and ethics go out the window.....and unfortunately Peter has been confronted with a nasty one!

[Starkler (Geoff)]

Devils advocate here

Could it be that a chip for Australia is a different item due to fuel differences etc requiring a premium to recoup extraordinary development costs over a small volume of sales?

[DavidU (Dave)]

Originally Posted by Starkler

Devils advocate here

We all know that the cost of software duplication is near zero and that development costs need to be recouped over the volume of sold units.

Could it be that a chip for Australia is a different item due to fuel differences etc requiring a premium to recoup costs over a small volume of sales?

I think you are right. I have seen a few maps that vary from Aust to US. Fuel is different(more so in years gone by) emissions are different.
Also the cams and compression ra may be different as well as ambient temp ranges. Just a thought

[marki]

Originally Posted by DavidU

I think you are right. I have seen a few maps that vary from Aust to US. Fuel is different(more so in years gone by) emissions are different.
Also the cams and compression ra may be different as well as ambient temp ranges. Just a thought

All the more reason to go with a fully programmable system. In my experience most pre-programmed chips leave a lot to be desired espeacially some of those from the major Japanese tunning houses. All motors are different even those made by Ferrari and should be treated as such. It is possible to have two identically equipped motors running the same specs, fuel and map producing very different figures on the dyno. I have seen this a number of times and these motors cost about 80K.

Mark

[DavidU (Dave)]

Originally Posted by marki

All the more reason to go with a fully programmable system. In my experience most pre-programmed chips leave a lot to be desired espeacially some of those from the major Japanese tunning houses. All motors are different even those made by Ferrari and should be treated as such. It is possible to have two identically equipped motors running the same specs, fuel and map producing very different figures on the dyno. I have seen this a number of times and these motors cost about 80K.

Mark

I was going to build a Megasquirt system for my 280zx. Great to program.

[FredSnerd (Claude)]

This one tops the cake in my book:

In the USA a Meade 12” LX90-ACF is US$3300 (AUD$3791)
In the USA a Celestron CPC 1100 XLT is US$2800 (AUD$3220). That is, in the US the Celestron is US$500 cheaper.

And when the scopes land is Australia: The Meade 12” LX90-ACF is AUD$5200 and the Celestron CPC 1100 XLT is AUD$6999. That is, the Celestron is now AUD$1800 more expensive. How the ********&%#@ does that happen?

Is there any reason why we cant form an IIS purchasing group. Every 6 months or so we put in our international orders shipped over in one consignment. I bet the Australian suppliers would start doing something about their prices quick smart.

[marki]

Originally Posted by DavidU

I was going to build a Megasquirt system for my 280zx. Great to program.

Most the stuff I did was on a fully bombed WRX setup for road race (WA champs 5 years running, 3rd in the nationals ). The tunning was done by a kiwi bloke who used to work for the Maclaren/mercedes F1 team. He runs a race shop here in Perth and really knows his stuff. The motors never blew no matter how badly they were treated.


Mark

[TrevorW]

Could he tune my Toyota Camry V6

[stephenb (Stephen)]

Originally Posted by FredSnerd

This one tops the cake in my book:

In the USA a Meade 12” LX90-ACF is US$3300 (AUD$3791)
In the USA a Celestron CPC 1100 XLT is US$2800 (AUD$3220). That is, in the US the Celestron is US$500 cheaper.

And when the scopes land is Australia: The Meade 12” LX90-ACF is AUD$5200 and the Celestron CPC 1100 XLT is AUD$6999. That is, the Celestron is now AUD$1800 more expensive. How the ********&%#@ does that happen?

Is there any reason why we cant form an IIS purchasing group. Every 6 months or so we put in our international orders shipped over in one consignment. I bet the Australian suppliers would start doing something about their prices quick smart.

Sorry Claude, but this gets raised almost monthly here on IIS, seriously, monthly. Every man and his dog has a whine about local prices, then it all goes away.

In regards to your bulk Overseas IIS purchasing Group:

1. Who's going to arrange it? Take the money? make the orders? Pickup the goods?

2. I certainly wouldn't be in it, because I always buy local to support the local dealers who offer support to local astronomers.

3. Does everyone keep forgetting abour warranty???? Meade and Celestron:

(a) DO NOT pay local dealers for warranty repairs so that aspect is factored into their prices.

(b) DO NOT have international warranties.

4. There are other costs built into the local price besides just making a profit.

5. and shame on the local dealers for make a profit With this country being 1/10th of the USA, one could easily say that their is at least 1/10th of the scopes sold, probably even less. If the local dealers didn't cover costs and make a profit, they probably wouldn't exist.

If people here are so annoyed at local prices, why don't they actually ring up the local dealers and complain? I bet no one does?

Why did this thread degrad from Peter's original genuine thread, to another thread criticising local dealers and prices?

[kinetic (Steve)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

What has me tossed is you can mail a set of EPROMS across the Pacific for around $15.00...infact you don't even have to do that, the EPROM code can be e-mailed. ( BTW shipping on big telescope mounts can cost....a PME runs about $US1100 with Fedex.....I digress.... )

And some of us can even program EPROMS

Steve

[marki]

Originally Posted by glenluceskies

If people here are so annoyed at local prices, why don't they actually ring up the local dealers and complain? I bet no one does?

Quite frankly Stephan I couldn't care less if all the ozzie dealers went out of business tommorrow. At least it would mean unfair trading rules set by companies such as meade and celestron would go and we could all obtain gear at fair prices. Why? Because we would stop being part of that tiny market which appears to work so strongly against us and is always used as an excuse to set stupid prices. We would be part of the larger US market and that would mean better pricing. As for warranty I have only claimed once in the past 20 years so for me it is a non-event. Paying several thousand dollars more for the same scope is ridiculous. Through the internet the world has become a much smaller place. Sitting at home I can access all the same products (and then some) as the local sellers have on their shelves. I am not so lazy that I cannot click the mouse on the item I want for myself after all isn't that all they do?

Mark

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by marki

All the more reason to go with a fully programmable system. .............
Mark

The F348 ECU constantly adapts (albeit slowly) to the engine parameters, hence they are not as "hard wired" as you'd think for an EPROM based system.

I've researched the whole business further, and it seems hyperflow cats and aftermarket exhaust will do all the chip guys can do, and them some, plus the sound will bring a smile to any "revheads" dial.

[marki]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

The F348 ECU constantly adapts (albeit slowly) to the engine parameters, hence they are not as "hard wired" as you'd think for an EPROM based system.

I've researched the whole business further, and it seems hyperflow cats and aftermarket exhaust will do all the chip guys can do, and them some, plus the sound will bring a smile to any "revheads" dial.

There are always other options Peter but if you are after really serious increases the programmable ECU is the only way to base your mods. I would steer clear of pre - programmed chips (even those that pretend to learn, webber marrelli system I am guessing) as they are always overly expensive and mess up the torque and power curves (shift them) somtimes making the car a complete pig to drive. With some intelligent tunning and a few extra bits and pieces you can have your cake and eat it so to speak. We managed to get 320kw and 750nm torque out of a 2.0 litre 4 cylinder motor that ran untouched (except servicing) for 3 seasons. We did not extract more horse power through revs as the mechanical integrity of the EJ 20 bottom end is very dubious (they go bang easily) but worked hard on increasing torque through setting up the turbo (2.0 bar boost) and mapping (1 litre of fuel /km on song). The car was an absolute beast and when you floored it, it sounded like a VW on steriods. Flooring it at 120km/Hr in 5th had all 4 wheels spinning . 0 - 100 in about 3.5 seconds.

Mark

[Waxing_Gibbous (Peter)]

Peter,
Try this chap:
www.videos.streetfire.net/video/Most-incredible-working_95679.htm
He was at Goodwood about 9 years ago. Hecould probably fix you up good & proper

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

What has me tossed is you can mail a set of EPROMS across the Pacific for around $15.00...infact you don't even have to do that, the EPROM code can be e-mailed. ( BTW shipping on big telescope mounts can cost....a PME runs about $US1100 with Fedex.....I digress.... )

Suffice to say, their antics made sure I'd go elsewhere

yeah I know. It's really ridiculous Good luck!

Dave

PS I wish I had a Ferrari!

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by dugnsuz

Sad but true Trevor - someone's economy is getting stimulated and it ain't ours!
Doug

Well, I've said it before, and I'll say it again - if you give free market reign to business, this is what will [mostly] happen. Governments like it because higher prices means more taxes, so there's on incentive of keeping the buggers honest. I've already had this run in with the ACCC over Microsoft Vista - at the time of launch it was going for US $359, and with the Aussie dollar being at like 96c at the time (from memory, I could be wrong), the converted rate (which I do remember) was $540. Microsoft Australia wanted to charge a RRP of $799...I pointed this out to the ACCC and told them that it was price fixing and I was told that it isn't price fixing, and that they can charge whatever price they like. My oh my...that's the last time I'll ever trust the ACCC.

Dave

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Outbackmanyep

Well....nobody is in business to lose money are they??

There's (imho) a difference between being in business to make money, and being just outright greedy.

Dave

[TrevorW]

Aynone notice how the price pf PS3's has suddently dropped and you can get more for your buck bet you another one's coming out soon at some ridculously marked up priced compared to the US

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by telecasterguru

Further to my previous email, advertised Astronomy US magazine September 09 page 72, Celestron CGE Pro Fastar compatible $8898.95. Same scope from a Sydney dealer currently advertised Recommended Retail Price $34,999AU.
How can this be? Ridiculous!

Frank

That's a VERY good question. Even allowing for the US/Aus $ rate conversion, that's AU $10400. And remember, that US 9k is retail, inc. taxes. Let's drop that price to the wholesale price, remove taxes. Now factor in the $ rate conversion, add shipping, add import duty, add GST. Factor in a local warranty cost that's *reasonable* and I BET it still falls a LOT short of that current Aussie price.

I'll give Bintel that - as the Aussie dollar improved, they dropped their prices. Kudos to them.

Dave

edit: Oh, and for warranty, and price factoring, etc, most warranties are 1 year. Goods are generally well enough manufactured these days to last a year with a very small failure rate, as the MTTF is usually 5-10 years, if not longer. So, the percentage of people claiming warranty issues within the warranty period is very low, and therefore, the costs involved in providing warranty fixes is also small. I'd like to see statistics on the number of say, Celestron scopes or Meade scopes that are sold, and what percentage fail within the warranty period, and what the average cost of repair is. I think you'll find that few fail within the warranty, and the majority that do, have small failures that are both easy, and cheap to fix. Even factoring in the small percentage of units that fail with costly repairs, I personally believe that we'll see that the inflated Aussie prices are just that - inflated.

As an aside - I find it interesting that even though the Aussie dollar is weak against the Japanese Yen, we can get similar prices for Tak gear here in Australia, as they do in the US. Mathematics would dictate that the cost for Tak and other Japanese gear should be markedly higher than in the US as our dollar is weaker vs the Yen than the US dollar is. That tells me that local Tak dealers take a cut on their profits I suspect. Tak gear seems to be very good value for money imho and I can't wait to get a Tak one day

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Could he tune my Toyota Camry V6

Lovely motor. I have a 94 Vienta. Still goes like a dream. Had to plug the oil leaks though.

Cheers