Near Death Experience - Page 3

gts055 (Mark) · #41 03-09-2009, 01:01 PM

Wonderful to read these accounts, and I believe them all to be as real as the person relating the event. Our minds are incredibly complex with much unknown. And that "spark" that makes living things "alive" sure does puzzle me. Everything we know is bound by electrical forces, from rocks to humankind, but living things have something extra. When that spark departs, decay begins be it an amoeba, a cabbage or us. I'm with u Jeanette = ^.^ =

FredSnerd (Claude) · #42 03-09-2009, 01:29 PM

I was brought up in a religious family. In my early 20s I gave up religion (no regrets about that) and after that I became a very strong proponent of the view that when we die we turn to compost. I think now that that was a reaction to religion. That is, I think i felt that if I accepted some form of existence beyond death I had to believe in God and heaven and hell and all that baggage. In a way my religous background closed my mind to the other possibility of some form of existence after "death" that is not spiritual in a religious sense but physical in a purly naturalistic "scientific sense".

Having said all that I'm not saying that there is this other existence after death. I don't know. The chemical in the brain theory (to help us deal with death) is just as plausible to me and I'm just eager to find out which it is.

In addition to all the things that makes one sad about dying do you ever think how sad it is that after you die you wont be here to see how the rest of the human story unfolds. That makes me sad.

astroron (Ron) · #43 03-09-2009, 01:32 PM

Fred, Just one question?
Do you do any Astronomy?
I have been through all your posts and only a couple of them even Mention the word

FredSnerd (Claude) · #44 03-09-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astroron

Fred, Just one question?
Do you do any Astronomy?
I have been through all your posts and only a couple of them even Mention the word

Ron regretfully I only have a pair of binoculars at the moment and I go out every second night or so (lately to look at jupiter).

I retired 9 months ago and am pursuing my life long dream of writing a screenplay for a film. I have been writing a min of 4 hours a day (often 9 - 12 hrs) and hope by christmas to have the first draft done (i'll be pushing but).

Earlier in the year I thought i could also get/build a telescope and do more astronomy but I'm affraid it will take too much time and so its gonna have to wait until I get this sceenplay done. But I do allow myself the indulgence of comming in here (too often lately) and exchanging ideas with people.

Ok, so thats me done.

GeoffW1 (Geoff) · #45 03-09-2009, 02:39 PM

Hi Claude,

I'm not sure what point Ron was trying to make just there, but for mine you are very welcome here.

Cheers

FredSnerd (Claude) · #46 03-09-2009, 03:50 PM

Thanks Geoff, I appreciate you saying.

dpastern (Dave Pastern) · #47 03-09-2009, 07:03 PM

As an interesting aside, only Christianism has a hell and a devil. None of the other major religions do.

Dave

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredSnerd

I was brought up in a religious family. In my early 20s I gave up religion (no regrets about that) and after that I became a very strong proponent of the view that when we die we turn to compost. I think now that that was a reaction to religion. That is, I think i felt that if I accepted some form of existence beyond death I had to believe in God and heaven and hell and all that baggage. In a way my religous background closed my mind to the other possibility of some form of existence after "death" that is not spiritual in a religious sense but physical in a purly naturalistic "scientific sense".

Having said all that I'm not saying that there is this other existence after death. I don't know. The chemical in the brain theory (to help us deal with death) is just as plausible to me and I'm just eager to find out which it is.

In addition to all the things that makes one sad about dying do you ever think how sad it is that after you die you wont be here to see how the rest of the human story unfolds. That makes me sad.

Octane (Humayun) · #48 03-09-2009, 07:14 PM

Dave, I think you'll find that both Judaism and Islam, do, too.

Regards,
Humayun

renormalised (Carl) · #49 03-09-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Octane

Dave, I think you'll find that both Judaism and Islam, do, too.

Regards,
Humayun

So does Zoroastrianism, Mithraism, Jainism and most of the other Middle Eastern faiths. The only religion/spiritual traditions which don't are the many strains of ancient animism and female/earth based beliefs in Europe and other places...the more sharmanistic traditions and such. Modern paganism and Wicca can be counted as part of those traditions and beliefs.

astroron (Ron) · #50 03-09-2009, 07:45 PM

No One took up this point.

What about the other creatures out there, don't they get in on the act as well?
We are quite happy to snuff out lives at the drop of a hat, arn't they also part of the work of the maker?

FredSnerd (Claude) · #51 03-09-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astroron

No One took up this point.

What about the other creatures out there, don't they get in on the act as well?
We are quite happy to snuff out lives at the drop of a hat, arn't they also part of the work of the maker?

Not sure what the point is Ron. Care to elaborate

renormalised (Carl) · #52 03-09-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astroron

No One took up this point.

What about the other creatures out there, don't they get in on the act as well?
We are quite happy to snuff out lives at the drop of a hat, arn't they also part of the work of the maker?

Yes, they do. The only thing separating them and us is our arrogance and hubris all predicated on rather dubious belief systems which we invented ourselves.

astroron (Ron) · #53 03-09-2009, 07:51 PM

You are talking about the after life, are we the only creatures that have one?

Satchmo · #54 03-09-2009, 07:53 PM

Quote:

You could just as easily state that what we experience in our daily lives as being the "hallucination". It's all predicated on the chemistry of neurotransmitters and their effects on cellular function.

It may be that in order to access these other levels of existence/reality, whatever you may want to perceive things, that these other neurotransmitters have to kick in...creating an altered state of consciousness that allows somoene to see into these other realms. Who's to say?!!!

Do point out the bleeding obvious

Jen · #55 03-09-2009, 07:59 PM

wow Duncan thanks for sharing that was an awsome read i felt myself moving closer and closer to the screen while i was reading that i could feel your emotions in the text

FredSnerd (Claude) · #56 03-09-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astroron

You are talking about the after life, are we the only creatures that have one?

Ron,

I was talking about near death experiances and what these similar experiances "might" tell us about the "possibility" of an after life. I was'nt talking about a maker and not saying that anything was definate. As for what happens to the animals I assume they are in the same boat as us but your guess is as good as mine as to what that is at this stage.

mac (Matt) · #57 03-09-2009, 08:12 PM

Well it's always possible that the expanded universe(s) is made up of layers. Maybe there's a physical layer (where the laws of physics and observation apply), and then there's also a spiritual layer. However, the mere mention of 'spiritual' seems to get people upset, so we can call that the 'metaphysical' layer. The layers are attached to each other, and when something in the physical layer dies, the metaphysical layer 'adapts', or change 'state'.

Perhaps the step in evolutionary progress that humans made (over the animals) is some kind of subconscious awareness of the metaphysical layer.

Sorry, I've had a few glasses of wine tonight...

astroron (Ron) · #58 03-09-2009, 08:13 PM

Why must there be an "After life"?
People over the centuries have been fed all this stuff by priests and other religious ideologies,so it is firmly planted in the human condition.

FredSnerd (Claude) · #59 03-09-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astroron

Why must there be an "After life"?
People over the centuries have been fed all this stuff by priests and other religious ideologies,so it is firmly planted in the human condition.

Ron,

Could i suggest you review the posts. I dont think anyone has advocated that there is an after life. I'm certainly not.

Even if one starts from the "assumption" that there is not an after life it does not mean that NDEs are not worthy of enquiry and examination for what they can tell us.

avandonk · #60 03-09-2009, 08:24 PM

Near death 'experiences' are exactly what they purport to be. Your brain is about to shut down and it valiantly tries to make sense of the faltering inputs. I have never seen a a truly independantly corroborated 'near death experience'. There are many operating theaters in the world that have 'hidden objects' near the ceiling. So far no near death person has identified any one of these objects under any sort of controlled conditions..

I again emphasise controlled conditions.

No point in making up a plausible story after the event.

Bert