Intelligent life is common in the Universe: Free Public Debate

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by avandonk

Were you talkin' to me? Carl.

Here is a very simple 'gedanken' experiment.

What if as all of what we see now was at the same place and the same time in a hypothetical singularity. This means at the quantum entanglement level everything in the Universe is connected! Could it be the evolution of the Universe is controlled by some feedback mechanism we can only guess at. So the whole shebang is one feedback controlled evolving entity. A self referential organism?

Bert

Yes and no, because I was also talking to everyone else too

But I like your idea as well...it ties in quite nicely with some of what I wrote. Actually if you take quantum entanglement for what it is, despite what we may experience, given the how particles behave at this level (and taking into account "spooky" action at a distance), then in reality this is exactly what it is!!.

[Alchemy (Clive)]

intelligent life common..... no evidence for it, none found so far. Common....unlikely elsewhere.... who knows

[marki]

I am a strong supporter of de-evolution. Its happening before my eyes, I see it every day, each generation less functional then the last. I would like to think I might have a tree to climb up but there won't be any left .

Mark

[Robh (Rob)]

Originally Posted by marki

I am a strong supporter of de-evolution. Its happening before my eyes, I see it every day, each generation less functional then the last. I would like to think I might have a tree to climb up but there won't be any left .

Mark

Hilarious.
But also sad.
Of course, there will be trees left standing. Just no leaves on them.

Regards, Rob

[Karls48 (Karl)]

Originally Posted by marki

I am a strong supporter of de-evolution. Its happening before my eyes, I see it every day, each generation less functional then the last. I would like to think I might have a tree to climb up but there won't be any left .

Mark

This is a big city phenomenon. Fortunately there are people still living in country.

[marki]

Originally Posted by Karls48

This is a big city phenomenon. Fortunately there are people still living in country.

Hmmm I wonder if it's a plot against us city folk. I mean they have kept their gene pool pretty closed and I'll bet they are the ones putting all the hormones in the chicken food. Me thinks I smell a "fowl" plot at hand here .

Mark

[marki]

Originally Posted by Robh

Hilarious.
But also sad.
Of course, there will be trees left standing. Just no leaves on them.

Regards, Rob

You would see this to I expect Rob. Most of my year 8's cannot even remain in their chairs let alone construct a sentence with any sort of real meaning ( their average behaviour is much like the naughty young chimps at the zoo). They are extremely socialable little munchikins whose only intrest in life appears to be being grandparents by the time they turn 25 .

Mark

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by marki

Hmmm I wonder if it's a plot against us city folk. I mean they have kept their gene pool pretty closed and I'll bet they are the ones putting all the hormones in the chicken food. Me thinks I smell a "fowl" plot at hand here .

Mark

The Chookerian League strikes the first blow!!!

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by marki

I am a strong supporter of de-evolution. Its happening before my eyes, I see it every day, each generation less functional then the last. I would like to think I might have a tree to climb up but there won't be any left .

Mark

That partially because the parents these days (and for a considerably longer period of time, actually) take little or no interest in teaching their children themselves, how to read and write, instill curiosity in the world around them or anything like that. Mainly because they themselves were brought up similarly. We've become too dependent on the TV and video game to take "care" of the kids. Says a lot for intelligent life here on this planet.

[marki]

Originally Posted by renormalised

That partially because the parents these days (and for a considerably longer period of time, actually) take little or no interest in teaching their children themselves, how to read and write, instill curiosity in the world around them or anything like that. Mainly because they themselves were brought up similarly. We've become too dependent on the TV and video game to take "care" of the kids. Says a lot for intelligent life here on this planet.

Yes Cartman and Bart are not proving to be good parental replacements I am affraid. My parents spent a lot of time with us kids in this area and I started reading at about 4yo. I can scarcely remember a time when I did not have a book in my hand. I guess it's a sign of the times, both parents have to flog themselves to death to pay the huge morgage and the kids are left to their own means. Really shows at parent teacher meetings, I swear half the parents do not even know who their kids are and the kids have zero respect for their folks. Pretty sad state of affairs in my book. The real question is without interlectual stimulation can we continue to move forward???

Mark

[renormalised (Carl)]

My parents, especially Dad, always had me around when they were reading or looking at something interesting. When they could, they always took me to places like museums and libraries. I could read a newspaper by the time I was 5 and they stopped testing my reading levels by the time I'd turned 9...I already had the reading level of a college graduate by the time I was 8. The principal of the school I was at wanted to put me into a special class for gifted kids, but Dad didn't want it, as he went through the same thing when he was young and he didn't like it. These days, I know college graduates (and undergrads) who are flat out spelling their own names!!!!. Takes all of their toes and fingers just to count to 5. It's a sad state of affairs, alright.

[Baddad (Marty)]

Hi All,

I've spent a good hour reading the posts on this thread. Good quality speculation. I wish to add my thoughts on the topic.

Getting back to the "Ants in the desert".

The ants bite, or have cause to be a pest. Superior race of humans destroy (control) the pest. Alternatively the ants can be studied if they are not a pest at the time. Undisturbed is best ofcourse.

Earth life forms in the eyes of aliens with fast space travel technology will have that attitude. They will not be requiring humans for food. They are way beyond that. To these aliens Earth has little interest to them. We are not that important to them.

Space travel is quite a hurdle at present. A.E. presented to us the theory of time and space. Can not travel faster than light. But can time be altered?

Is that how aliens travel?

To really be on the square we are more concerned with life forms that are more advanced than humans. To discover any primitive forms would be percieved as a step towards the ultimate.

The question of what is life. Wow. The concepts presented in the posts are so close to what I think is incredible. I relate to those ideas very well. My apologies to those who presented them for not mentioning them directly.

I think that all life is connected somehow. Wherever it exists in the universe. That ofcourse is difficult to prove and is only speculation.

It can be what one post explains it to be. Earth is a living entity.
We simply can not recognise it.

Looking forward to more good input on this thread.

Cheers Marty

[Alchemy (Clive)]

my last thoughts on the matter

as covered by drakes equation... will life survive itself as civilization progresses?

not on this planet. we are quite happy to incrementally go one step further ie chop just one more tree down , then another etc, a concept taught in childrens books ( the lorax by Dr suess). always assuming that it wont make a difference ( the frog in the slowly boiling water) , add to the mix war, pollution, overpopulation, global warming, plus a host of other things. given we have not learned from history, i guess we never will.

back to drakes equation, how long does a civilization last..... not long in the big picture (10,000 years out of 14,000,000,000) if life just like us was out there and it behaved like us ..... youd never find them.

[joe_smith]

Our intelligence gives us the capacity to destroy ourselves

its not our intelligence that destroys, its our Ego of self-interest and lack of intelligence that destroys. To me if we are really that smart why are we using our intelligence to spend millions of dollars looking for life out there when we should look after the life here on earth its 2009 and still mothers, fathers, sons and daughters are starving to death or being killed for the Ego of someone else's self-interest. Ego is not a dirty word, its a weapon of mass destruction.

[Robh (Rob)]

On the assumption that intelligent life has evolved somewhere else, I wonder whether it is possible for that species not to destroy their environment. At the very spike of technological advancement they also need to be smart enough to factor in changes to their ecosystems. Somehow they need to minimise their footprint to sustain their ecosystems. However, many changes to environment during this period are unforeseen and essentially unpredictable. Increasing population and technological demands require increasing amounts of energy and result in increasing ecological damage.

Curiously, evolution has allowed the domination of this planet by one intelligent species that has now reached an evolutionary plateau. Barring genetic engineering, we have to use what we've got. But are we smart enough?

It seems any intelligent species will need their habitat for a long time before they can develop the physics and technology to travel across the Universe or relocate somewhere else.

Rob

[avandonk]

Originally Posted by renormalised

My parents, especially Dad, always had me around when they were reading or looking at something interesting. When they could, they always took me to places like museums and libraries. I could read a newspaper by the time I was 5 and they stopped testing my reading levels by the time I'd turned 9...I already had the reading level of a college graduate by the time I was 8. The principal of the school I was at wanted to put me into a special class for gifted kids, but Dad didn't want it, as he went through the same thing when he was young and he didn't like it. These days, I know college graduates (and undergrads) who are flat out spelling their own names!!!!. Takes all of their toes and fingers just to count to 5. It's a sad state of affairs, alright.

Our development depends on so many things we do not understand. To leave out any steps and experiences in the development of an individual can find major problems further down the track. Fast tracking will lead to burn out.

A good stimulating environment is the best teacher especially before you are three. You whole attitude to life starts at home and is formed at/during this small window.

I read years ago of a boy who spent his whole infancy in one of those wheeled chairs at his parents 24hr servo. He never learnt to roll or crawl etc. He started walking straight out of the wheeled chair thingy. Later on he could not learn to read or write no matter how hard he tried.
For some months he was required to not walk at all. He came good as far as reading and writing. It seems the connections made in the brain by crawling and rolling etc. are needed for reading and writing.

Even childrens games are making the neural connections needed for more complex tasks later in life.

I wonder what damage we are doing to our children by putting them in cotton wool. People err so far on the side of 'safety' that most children never get to do what is totally natural and needed for their full development.

I will stop now.

Bert

[avandonk]

Originally Posted by renormalised

Yes and no, because I was also talking to everyone else too

But I like your idea as well...it ties in quite nicely with some of what I wrote. Actually if you take quantum entanglement for what it is, despite what we may experience, given the how particles behave at this level (and taking into account "spooky" action at a distance), then in reality this is exactly what it is!!.

When I first came across Godels Theorem I realised that I should be very afraid. This was a bit much to take after not understanding Quantum Mechanics. Then all the birds still sang the grass grew and the children still laughed.

I have come to realize we are in the foothills of knowledge. We must persevere!


Bert

[renormalised (Carl)]

I'm a big fan of the adage..."the more we learn, the less we actually know", and whilst some think we're at the pinnacle of knowledge, in reality we haven't even stepped over the mound of dirt at the bottom of the small foothill next to the range of Mt Everests.

[avandonk]

Where I come from we are at the foot hills. We have decided to make base camp.

Bert

[mac (Matt)]

Is there intelligent life out there? I don't know. To believe either way surely requires a leap of faith. And I'm particularly good at sitting on the fence, so that's where I'll stay.

But it's fun to talk about these things. I sometimes like to think that life is not restricted to the definition of earth-bound scientists. That perhaps it could exist in other forms, in other types of energies. Maybe there's life in neutrinos? Passing through all different kinds of matter, like some kind of 'force'... ooooh! Or maybe quasars are the egg sacks for ancient alien races?