Solid DOB vs Collapse DOB

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Oh and one other thing!

When I was trying to "justify" the expense to the Minister of Finances, one thing struck me as I was sitting in the kids rumpus room contemplating blowing $1500 on a telescope..............

Well, not exactly one thing, more like;

Xbox 360 = $500
Nintendo Wii = $400
Playstation 2 = $400 (at the time)

81cm LCD TV to play these on = $1500
and over (wait for it) 100 games @ $80-100 dollars EACH = $8000 -$9000 !!!!!!!!!

And I said: "stuff this, I am buying a 12" telescope TODAY!!!"

and then I went and asked my wife ......

Cheers

Chris

[Marclau (Marcel)]

Originally Posted by Screwdriverone

OK let me make your mind up for you Marcel.

1) I dont think a 12" or 10" solid will be for "life". From what I have seen and heard here in the last 18 months, one telescope is never enough and the first one either stays with you and gets added to, or "upgraded" by selling it to IIS members and buying the next best thing in your life at the time.
2) For $599 for a 10 inch collapsible (not $799 like I thought), the price of the 10 inch is A STEAL!, saves you $600!!!!!! over a 12 inch scope and as I said, its more portable, takes up slightly less space in the car and isn't too far behind the gathering capacity of the 12" version.
3) You mentioned an observatory perhaps in the future. When that is built you will probably want an EQ mount that stays set up, aligned and ready to go instantly when the need arises. A 10" or 12" dob taking pride of place in an observatory (to me) seems a bit silly.

In summary: Save some money now while the prices are rock bottom on the 10" collapsible at $599. Buy one, take it camping, use it as often as you want, chuck it in the car, let the kids use it (IF THEY CAN GET YOU OFF IT) and keep the $600 difference for the 12-24 months away when you decide to UPGRADE.

Seriously, by the time you get sick of it, or run out of things to look at, you will have been secretly putting aside savings to purchase the "next best thing" on the horizon to slot into the observatory.

One thing I have learnt here is: There is always something else that you want to buy.

After all, we are "only" talking about $600! Nifty Kev hopefully should be funding it?

Cheers for now

Chris

Your a legend Chris............seriously......... not a politician are you??

Thats what swayed me couple of days ago but then reread your post early on about egos etc etc.
Wife made a good point though; would i really want to bring it camping? Would'nt the 4.5" tube and binos be good enough??

Even though both our cars could easily accommodate the tube, it has had me thinking all bloody day at work............but you are right.......looking at my wish list down the track I would love a GPS based 12" or 14" as ultimate (Meade LX200-ACF 12" Advanced Coma Free).........and then I dream that after my vehicle purchases, it will take me 5 years to save based on my $2 per week pocket money from my accountant...

Bugger, maybe I just take the plunge..........anyone heard good things about Andrews Communications?? They have scopes that are $200 cheaper then Bintel's...........and yes, it would cost around $50 for delivery to Melbourne...........which brings me on to the next question; how good are the Saxon 12" DOB's...........??maybe I should do a poll on the models and see what people vote for..........ummmmmmm

[Marclau (Marcel)]

Originally Posted by Screwdriverone

Oh and one other thing!

When I was trying to "justify" the expense to the Minister of Finances, one thing struck me as I was sitting in the kids rumpus room contemplating blowing $1500 on a telescope..............

Well, not exactly one thing, more like;

Xbox 360 = $500
Nintendo Wii = $400
Playstation 2 = $400 (at the time)

81cm LCD TV to play these on = $1500
and over (wait for it) 100 games @ $80-100 dollars EACH = $8000 -$9000 !!!!!!!!!

And I said: "stuff this, I am buying a 12" telescope TODAY!!!"

and then I went and asked my wife ......

Cheers

Chris

hahahaha I know the scenario well.........we have a new Sony 120cm LCD Bravia Xmas time and the PS3.......dont know why as we had a 101cm Phillips LCD that was perfect...........on top of that a 100" projector in the Rumpus............geeee i'm such a nerd and gadgets man.........don't even get me started on those...............wife absolutely hates it. My excuse, I dont drink or smoke.............hahahaha I win everytime...

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Hi Marcel,

No, not a politician, so, YES you CAN trust me.

If you are camping, in a nice dark sky, you will want the bigger 10" tube to see more and take advantage of the better night sky. The other advantage of the dobsonian 10" over the 4.5" is that its TWICE the aperture and MUCH easier for everyone to use (including the wife and kids) so you can ALL fight over it when looking at cool stuff.

As for Andrews Comms, my experiences have ALL been positive, that's where I bought my 12" Skywatcher DOB from. Also, Saxon is the same manufacturer with a different name on it.

Go for the 10" from Andrews Comms at $599, its well worth the money and from my own experience and also others here and reviews in Australian Sky and Telescope, the optical quality of these scopes is very good.

I am not affiliated with Andrews Comms or any other vendor/shop by the way.

Cheers

Chris

[written, spoken and authorised by Screwdriverone (Chris) for the IIS Telescope Selection Party (2009)]

[Marclau (Marcel)]

hahahaah funny guy...........yeah I suppose........in fact this months issue if Sky & telescope (I think thats what the mag was called) just reviewed the 12"..........the only thing it said was the the alt was too easily moved even when using the finderscope etc.........too easy to move around......I'm now back to thinking 12"............every day a different point of view.......probably change my mind once I see them so looking at going to Bintel's first to get an idea of size and weight........then I will look at who can give me the best deal...........postage I'm assuming from Sydney would be around $50 - $100??

Does anyone know if the Bintel DOB's are the same as SW & Saxon rebadged?

[bobson (Bob)]

Marcel,

Buy 12" and you will not look back. If you buy 10" you will always think what if I bought 12". Beleive me, I was in the same position and not once I felt I should've gotten 10". In this hobby, bigger is better. Once you look through 16" you will want that one and so on.

As for Bintel, I got that one, its GSO. Made in Taiwan. Saxon and Skywatcher are made in China.

Just to add to this post, I had Skywather 8" before this one and sold it to buy 12". I recently bought Skyawatcher refractor 102x1000. But the views were not even close to my 12" Dob. Talking about planets and Moon here. I didn't expect refractor to perform as good as 12" Dob but the views with Dob are so much better that I sold that refractor. Yes, it was easy to move around, and it was on EQ mount, but all that is not enough when you look through 12" Dob. Than you will know why you bought it.

Don't forget that 12" collects approx. 40% (or even more)more light than 10". Someone correct me if I am wrong. Its not just 2" difference and people think, well its only 2", so what?

cheers

bob

[alexch (Alex)]

Originally Posted by Marclau

\Sky & telescope (I think thats what the mag was called) just reviewed the 12"..........the only thing it said was the the alt was too easily moved even when using the finderscope etc.........too easy to move around

Mine was like that for first couple of months and I added two pieces of foam to add stiction, it did wear in however, and I had to remove the foam later as it was too sticky. The az movement is close to perfection now (easy 500x hand guiding). I replaced the nylon alt bearings with steel roller bearings too.

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Mine rotates too easy in Azimuth too, all I did was tighten the centre bolt - problem solved.

I have been trying to get Marcel to buy the 12" version for a few posts now, I simply cannot really justify $600 more for the 12" collapsible compared to the current list price of the 10" at $599.

I know that you may say (like I did) "what if?" but come on? TWICE THE PRICE?

Still, $1199 is a good price but all the factors here (longevity, portability etc etc) make me think a 10" is a great solution for Marcel's current situation and for what he wants to do with it and places he wants to take it. The 12" is a BIG scope, even when its collapsed.

Anyhow, decision is not mine so.......

Cheers

Chris

[Marclau (Marcel)]

Thanks Chris again, Alex & Bob.........I think once I can get an understanding and visual of ths actual size compared to me will be the decision point.........weight too i guess...just need to save...........pulled out and set up the old scope 2 days ago.........OMG.........can't wait now for a DOB....

[Marclau (Marcel)]

O'K went and visited Roger at Bintel this afternoon.

Nothing short of sensational. Like a big kid in a candy store.

Service was A1 and even though I mentioned that I was only looking at this stage, Roger was sensational discussing all my options and 'for's and againsts' for 10", 12" collapsibles etc........I actually held the 12" tube easily enough and only 18 kilos plus 16 for base (if I recall correctly) but more then easy enough for me so looks like the 12" tube is now the go and settled upon in my head. And now to keep saving........

I feel for my needs, and long term investment, the 12" was the way to go. Aperture Envy convinced me that the 12" would make the better investment too with 40% larger light capturing ability as mentioned earlier.

[Calibos (Keith)]

Marcel,

You've made the right decision. When I got my Orion XT12i 18 months ago, the only Chinese non premium scope Truss/collapsibles were the 12/16" Lightbridges. However I was swayed to the solid tube Orion 12" by the Intelliscope and as a beginner who knew nothing about collimation, I was worried about the talk of Trusses needing to be collimated more often. While I am glad I got the Orion Intelliscope as it turned out the 'Thrill of the hunt' was more like the 'frustration of the hunt' for me with regard to starhopping, I quickly realised that my main reason for not getting a 12 or 16" Lightbridge which was the fear of collimation was a moot point. While collimation sounds hard I got the hang of it in no time at all.

The only problem with my Orion solid tube was space in the car. While I could fit it in with the back seats folded down, between the OTA and the base, there was not much room for very much else.

Now that my fear of collimation was gone I started to investigate the scope that could have been my first scope instead of the Orion had it not been for my fear of collimation, the LB16. After carefull measurements of my car and after finding out the dimensions of the LB16 from others, I realised that this 16" scope because it could be broken down, would fit in my car a lot better than a solid tube 12". Instead of 1/4 the interior space being available for accesories, I would have 1/2 the space free!

More space and all that extra apeture to boot!! A short while later the bubble was slightly burst when I got to compare my 12" Orion with a Premium 20". I was massively surprised how well my 12" held its own when comparing the views on several objects. I realised that the improvement in views is not linear. ie. Big improvement in views from say 4" to 8" and 8" to 12" but after 12" in apeture the law of diminishing returns kicks in big time. You just don't get the same level of improvement as you step up in apeture above 12" while at the same time from 12" upwards the price and size and weight of scopes increases exponentially. ie. 4" apeture upgrades are worthwhile from the smallest scopes up to 12" but from then on you really need to be jumping 10" for the views of the bigger scope to really blow you away. Sure, there is improvement in some objects with smaller jumps but to be able to see amazing new detail in most objects requires much bigger apeture jumps.

Anyway, I ended up getting an LB16 anyway because like I said, it fit the car much better and because I got a brand new one for the price of a 12". I did not get it for the extra apeture though because if I didn't see much differance between my Orion 12" and the premium 20", I certainly wouldn't see much differance between my 12" and a 16" except on a handfull of objects.

Thus I think cheap chinese 12" are the goldilocks scopes with regard to the price performance ratio.

You have the benefit of more choice with regard to trusses and collapsibles than I did.

If it was me deciding on my first big scope right now, with what I have learned about apeture, different types of scopes like dob/newts/sct's refractors etc, and that I preferred dobs but liked pushto/goto and tracking. I have had to add these tom my LB16 at significant extra cost. Well if I was deciding now, I'd be waiting for the 12-14" Skywatcher Collapsible Flextube Auto. Collapsible to fit in the car, Goldilocks 12/14" apeture, tracking built in adding only 2 hundred or so to the cost instead of the 7 or 8 hundred I have spent for rtacking with an EQ platform for my scopes, and once they work out the bugs, Skywatcher will make available their Syscan handset upgrade for this scope for about 200 which will bring its 40,000 object database and full goto to this scope!! A mere fraction of what any other 12" goto SCT would cost.

[Jorge (Jorge)]

Hi all. What I'm learning from this thread is that there is not a significant difference (from an observational perspective) between a 16" dob and 12" dob. I need a little clarification as a begginner. If I were to compare a 16" and a 12" side by side (let's assume both are auto-tracking and using the same eyepiece), what significant differences am I likely to see? Thanks.

[Marclau (Marcel)]

Hi Jorge,

It all comes down to light gathering (aperture) and thus what you are trying to achieve out of your telescope and the quality and detail of your images.

From my learnings, and feedback from what everyone has been saying, aperture is one of the most important ingredients.

I was almost hooked on a 10" but have only just realised that longevity of the scope, a 12" will give me more pleasure for longer.

Also think about portability and where you want to view. Do you have the room, vehicle etc etc??