LX200 Price question????

[nobbygon (Angus)]

Hi, ive been looking for a new scope for a while now and im pretty sure I will get a Meade LX200 8".
The average advertised price for one of these in Australia is around $4800AUD. This includes the mount and all the bells and whistles.
However, if I were to order the exact same telescope and mount direct from Meade in America it would only cost me $3622AUD (1AUD=80 US cents) including shipping.
My question is, where does the extra $1178 come from??? Is this the reseller marking up the price???? Hidden costs??? Does anyone know???

Cheers, Angus

[Bassnut (Fred)]

This has been done to death. Factor in Freight, GST, insurance , customs charges, local delivery and local support. I bet direct costs alone make it just not worth it. Do yourself a favour and nick down to Bintel. Importing a large item is not worth the grief. A small thing, sure, not a whole scope. Think of what it would cost to ship the whole shebang back to the US if it went belly up during the warranty period??

[marki]

Fred's right and also you could not buy one direct from Meade or any Meade dealer in the US unless you have a US address to send it to. They are not allowed to sell these scopes outside of the US and Canada.

Mark

[nobbygon (Angus)]

ahh I see, i didnt factor in all of those little aspects. Thanks for your help.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

This has been done to death. Factor in Freight, GST, insurance , customs charges, local delivery and local support. I bet direct costs alone make it just not worth it. Do yourself a favour and nick down to Bintel. Importing a large item is not worth the grief. A small thing, sure, not a whole scope. Think of what it would cost to ship the whole shebang back to the US if it went belly up during the warranty period??

This is what ****s me - you didn't factor in one important thing - this person is doing a conversion on a US retail price on said scope. Bintel buys at wholesale, significantly cheaper. Even accounting for import duty (5%), GST (10%), freight costs and insurance, there is *still* a reasonable price difference. Some of it goes to cover housing the item in a warehouse, some of it to warranty purposes (Bintel more than likely ships back to the US for any repairs I suspect).

I find it amazing to see that those who most support price markups, are those in business. Suspicious, yes.

Dave

[citivolus (Ric)]

Originally Posted by dpastern

This is what ****s me - you didn't factor in one important thing - this person is doing a conversion on a US retail price on said scope. Bintel buys at wholesale, significantly cheaper. Even accounting for import duty (5%), GST (10%), freight costs and insurance, there is *still* a reasonable price difference. Some of it goes to cover housing the item in a warehouse, some of it to warranty purposes (Bintel more than likely ships back to the US for any repairs I suspect).

I find it amazing to see that those who most support price markups, are those in business. Suspicious, yes.

Dave

Actually, there is no import duty, and the GST price is going to hit you either way.

Australian vendors charge substantially larger mark-ups than US ones, however they also generally have substantially lower volumes.

IE, California has the same population as Australia, and I would venture to say a substantially larger average disposable income.

Having previously handled imports myself, I have to admit that my last two major purchases were from Australian vendors. Prices were within 10% of overseas, and I'll get a usable warranty, that does not involve me spending $1000 round trip to get service.

Yes, air shipping (insured) on a scope round trip to California would be over $1000 AU. My CGE was $650 US one way.

Regards,
Eric

[mozzie (Peter)]

Originally Posted by dpastern

This is what ****s me - you didn't factor in one important thing - this person is doing a conversion on a US retail price on said scope. Bintel buys at wholesale, significantly cheaper. Even accounting for import duty (5%), GST (10%), freight costs and insurance, there is *still* a reasonable price difference. Some of it goes to cover housing the item in a warehouse, some of it to warranty purposes (Bintel more than likely ships back to the US for any repairs I suspect).

I find it amazing to see that those who most support price markups, are those in business. Suspicious, yes.

Dave

dave bintel do all repairs inhouse and if you buy overseas you have to sent it back for repairs under warranty and buying local gives you that personall touch if you have any probs with setting up and scope questions try and ring overseas if theres a prob
mozzie

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by nobbygon

Hi, ive been looking for a new scope for a while now and im pretty sure I will get a Meade LX200 8".
The average advertised price for one of these in Australia is around $4800AUD. This includes the mount and all the bells and whistles.
However, if I were to order the exact same telescope and mount direct from Meade in America it would only cost me $3622AUD (1AUD=80 US cents) including shipping.
My question is, where does the extra $1178 come from??? Is this the reseller marking up the price???? Hidden costs??? Does anyone know???

Cheers, Angus

Hi,

Buy 2nd hand. That way you have no warranty (like the US purchase), no exchange rate (like the Oz purchase), no angst (like here), and a cheaper price. Perfect

Cheers

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by mozzie

dave bintel do all repairs inhouse and if you buy overseas you have to sent it back for repairs under warranty and buying local gives you that personall touch if you have any probs with setting up and scope questions try and ring overseas if theres a prob
mozzie

I'd be surprised if Bintel does all repairs in house. I suspect that those meades are rather complex beasties under the skin ;-)

Citivolus - are you saying that Australian businesses do not pay any import duty? I'd find that very hard to believe. As far as I'm aware the difference of individual vs business is that business usually imports at wholesale, not retail price (which means lower import duty and GST). Plus, business gets tax lurks and perks.

To the OP - it probably is worth getting the goods from an Australian retailer, purely for the warranty side of things. Of course, if you have nothing go wrong with the scope, then I guess you've paid a bit more for the local purchase (but hey, no fault means more time with your scope!).

Australian businesses do tend to markup more than overseas retailers, although it probably depends on where you go. The US tends to be quite cheap with goods to customers from what I've seen, whereas the UK is very very expensive. *shudders*.

For smaller stuff like filters, eyepieces, etc, if the price is a big enough difference, then I'd say buy from overseas. These types of items are far less likely to have faults etc anyways, so far less likely to use a local warranty (or justify it).

Dave

[Paul Hatchman]

Originally Posted by dpastern

I'd be surprised if Bintel does all repairs in house. I suspect that those meades are rather complex beasties under the skin ;-)

Then, prepare to be surprised. Because they do.

Cheers.

[telecasterguru (Frank)]

One other thing that has to be remembered is that there is a free trade agreement between Australia and the US.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by dpastern

I'd be surprised if Bintel does all repairs in house. I suspect that those meades are rather complex beasties under the skin ;-)

David - might be best to do some research before making these comments here.

Both Don Whiteman and Michael Chaytor from Bintel have spent time working for Meade and Celestron over in Irvine, CA to be very qualified and informed product engineers - skills which they brought back to Australia for our benefit. I believe that Don was involved in research and development for Meade in some capacity too, and is more qualified than nearly anyone to fix these scopes. They keep going back over from time to time to keep abreast of developments and brush up on the new gear as it surfaces. They've invested in a spare parts inventory, and this isn't cheap to maintain. They don't have every part in stock, for sure, but they certainly know what is needed most often. Remember - even the spares have to be shipped internationally - and stored - whether they're used or not. They keep mechanical components (motors, gear trains, clutches, etc) as well as full electronics for pretty-well everything they stock. I couldn't imagine they carry spare SCT mirrors or corrector plates, but I could be wrong. Maybe they do draw the line here, because replacing these parts usually isn't worth the money. Make sure you have insurance!

Back when I had a 12" LX200GPS I'd rather've sent it to Don than to the factory/HQ any day of the week. I wouldn't even think of bringing in a Meade or Celestron scope direct from the USA to save 20%. Not in a million Sundays. Some would, but then they risk being stranded if the crunch comes.

Why pay a little more to buy from here? Because you get a very short turnaround on local repairs and don't have to pay for freight back to the States - and also avoid possible breakage en route. You get great advice on accessories and these guys know exactly what will and won't work in relation to the scopes. You can take your scope in to them and have it thorougly cleaned for almost nix at any time. Great service. It's also interesting to note that these two blokes are heavily involved in the astronomical community, and Don holds a very active committee position within the ASNSW. Not too many other simple vendors go to this extent to be close to those they sell to. I've also never come across someone who has told me not to buy certain items in their inventory because something else (that they didn't even carry) was better suited to my needs.

[Wavytone]

Agree wholeheartedly re Don and Michael; they deserve your support.

[marki]

Although I have never delt with Don I have found Michael to be very knowledgable and very helpful. When My ETX drive broke I rang Bintel who sent a replacement part to me (so I did not have to pay freight on sending the scope back, I live in Perth) which arrived a couple of days later. Michael gave me step by step instructions on how to change the part over the phone and the ETX has been sweet ever since. You may gripe about prices but you cannot fault their after sales service.

Correct me if I am wrong but a while back I was reading some customs stuff and seem to remember telescopes being exempt from import duties. Does my memory serve me correctly?

Mark

[Don Pensack]

I am a US merchant and I get tons of requests from Australia for products, most of which go nowhere when the freight is calculated. Unless bringing in a container full of scopes by sea, the freight to ship a single scope is huge and it can exceed $1000USD for an air shipment of a large heavy scope if shipped by air (remember your local merchant may have paid that if getting a special-order scope from the US companies).
Add to that the prohibition for us to ship certain brands (such as Meade or Celestron) outside the US, and the fact that the warranty can only be valid if shipped back to the US merchant (for which you would pay freight 2 ways).
Then there is customs clearance, which may be duty-free but likely to have a brokerage fee.
You might save 10%, ultimately, by the time it's delivered to your door.
With a lot more risk and trouble.

As an aside, it is true that US dealers operate on a smaller markup because prices are set by the distributors, and they are set too low. We don't like it, and wages in the astronomy business over here are very low. It is tough to retain personnel because of the low wages. And competition here is cut-throat. I have competitors who offer free freight to consumers and pay the local taxes for the customer, yet still accept a credit card as payment (which costs the retailer a few %). I regularly have to match prices to make a sale where the resultant profit margin is 1% or even cost.
I can't stay in business by doing that, and I'm glad it isn't that common.
I wish the industry would allow the US merchants a better margin, but the overall small size of the market guarantees that if prices would actually float upwards to realistic levels that 1/2 of the retailers would go out of business. We don't sell necessities, and it is low prices that enable us to make enough sales to stay in business.

If you have great service from local shops and you can rely on their expertise, then such merchants are worth supporting.

[citivolus (Ric)]

Thanks for the post Don. A quick Google search showed that I bought my first and third Meade from your San Francisco store

It is good to hear the story from the US side of things on this subject.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Yes - thanks for the enlightened post Don. This should be made a sticky. I've lived and worked in the US for a few years and enjoyed it immensely. I never really understood the tipping concept until someone else told me about margins and miniscule profits borne of extreme competition there. It's tough doing business in the USA. The consumer wins with better pricng, but at what ultimate cost? If we had US pricing structures and margins here in Australia our vendors would likely be out of business in a week. We have a very small population - so deal with it everyone.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

David - might be best to do some research before making these comments here.

I said I'd be surprised if they did the repairs in house, not that they did not do them. Let's be realistic here, how many retailers know the product well enough to actually do the repairs themselves? My presumption was a reasonable one.

It is good that Don & Mike have such a sound technical knowledge - not attempt was made to demean them. Most of the products at Bintel are reasonably close to the cost of directly importing yourself, although some items have glaring differences.

As I said in an earlier post, the prices are close enough, and given transportation costs and warranty etc, it's best to buy from them locally.

Dave

[Blue Skies (Jacquie)]

Originally Posted by marki

Correct me if I am wrong but a while back I was reading some customs stuff and seem to remember telescopes being exempt from import duties. Does my memory serve me correctly?

Yes, you are right - there are no tariffs or extra duties on them, just GST and the usual customs processing fees. At least that was the story several years ago when I was importing some but I doubt its changed.

[netwolf]

Meade pricing in Australia is far more comoarabale to US prices than Celestron Scopes.

If you want better bargain, then go second hand. Almost every scope i have bought has been second hand. Accepting the first scope i bought.
You can also get a good deal on overseas used telescopes/mounts, even once you include shipping. For the budget minded, i would suggest strongly to look at used.

I myself have posted similar threads, but I will admit when it comes to Meade pricing in general i find the local pricing to be resonable.

Regards
Fahim